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Monday, July 20, 2009

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If more people knew how the staffs of CPCs lie to pregnant women seeking information and guidance, I think they would also feel the sting of ostracism.

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People make mistakes. It is irresponsible to then wave it around literally on a stick at ALL WOMEN EVERYWHERE and tell US that we cannot have the choice to make OUR own decisions just because THEY regret the one THEY made!

Julie

George, how can you not regret asking such a stupid question?

George

How can you not regret murdering your own child?

Julie

I'm still waiting for you to come up with sources to back up your claims. Where is the evidence that hospitals don't want to perform abortions, or abortion clinics are "dumps", or 80% of counties don't want abortion providers? If more people knew how the staffs of CPCs lie to pregnant women seeking information and guidance, I think they would also feel the sting of ostracism.

Pandora

After 30 plus years of Roe v Wade, abortionists still complain of ostracism. You have failed to make abortion and those who provide it acceptable to the rest of the medical community, heck according to whiny abortionist you can't even get your facility maintained.

The local CPC doesn't have this problem, they just got the place renovated not too long ago.

Julie

I ask you to "put up" but you ask me "what's your plan?" Time you admitted you "ain't got nothin'". You've failed, just like the general anti-abortion movement has failed.

Pandora

So what's your plan to get abortionists into hospitals where they aren't wanted? What's the plan for them to get their clinics maintained so they don't look like dumps? What's your plan to deal with the 80% plus counties where they are not welcome?

Julie

Ya know, hom. Repeating what I say is the mark of someone lacking anything original to say. I can back up what I say with medical and scientific facts. So it's time for you to either put up or shut up. What's it gonna be, sweetie?

Pandora

OK you're not a provider, so you just post hearsay and speculation.

If you happen to know of any unemployed abortionists I hear they're short one in Kansas .....

Julie

What the blazes are you talking about? OIC, you are under the impression I'm an abortion provider. Man, are you naive, wasting good money on bottled water.

Pandora

But my local health care provider can get all the bottled water he wants, whihc seems to be more than you can.

Julie

You are a real piece of work,Pandora. Playground taunts are a sign you don't really have a coherent argument.

Ayaz Ullah

I think abortion is wrong especially, when it's to late into the pregnancy.

Pandora

To Julie,

Whiny Abortionist on another page seems to think not enough women who don't regret their abortion are speaking up. Please send some her way so she'll stop whining.

Diatryma

Operation Counterstrike, one of the strengths of the pro-choice movement is that we are not the ones killing women. We aren't the ones insisting little girls die because they have bad fathers. We aren't the ones threatening women.

I am not going to give that up.

If someone calls me a murderer, the way to fight back isn't to kill them.

Julie

I'll try this AGAIN:
1) The fetus is NOT a person, like an acorn is not an oak tree.
2) It's called "taking the moral high ground." The public sees pro choicers talking the talk and walking the walk. Then they see the anti abortion activists are - hyprocrites. Polls aren't the most realiable indicators, but they have shown most Americans want abortion to remain legal.
3) I feel public disgust at their actions will be more effective than terror.
4) Exposing them for the miserable hyprocites they are will also be more effective than putting them six feet under. You know how cockroaches run when light is shone on them?
5) a good slap upside the head is, once again, STILL more effective than a bullet to the brain.
6)'Nuff said. Expose them for the fork-tongued hyprocritical idiots they are. People can't learn the error of their ways after they are dead.

Julie

Grrr. My other comment got deleted! Webmaster, can you restore it? It was a long reply to operation counterstrike.

Julie

Sorry, I meant "polls are NOT exactly the most reliable."

Julie

Going by the U.S. Constitution, the fetus is NOT a person. An acorn isn't an oak tree, so a potential person cannot be compared with an already born person, and so on. The woman's choice is justified, but abortion is not homicide, not by any stretch. Saying otherwise is playing the anti-abortion movement's game.
1) It's called "taking the high road". The public sees the violent elements of the anti-abortion movement which hurts that movement's appeal. Polls are exactly the most reliable indicator, but each one has shown the majority of Americans want abortion to remain legal and safe.
2) The continued disgust by the American public is what will convince the anti-abortion movement they must stop coddling the violent segment within their ranks. When the people speak up and say "I would be pro-life, but that movement is so violent", then there will be changes. Public opinion is very important to the anti-abortion movement.
3) I feel exposing them to the public eye and showing what they really are will be more effective than putting the "hit" on them.
4) IMHO: A good metaphorical ear-boxing is more effective than a bullet to the brain. I want them to think really hard about their behavior, and they can't do that if they are dead.
5) See #4 above. Olbermann tongue lashing or a Stewart fun poking is WAY more effective. Only feelings get hurt this way, plus it's funnier. LOL

OperationCounterstrike

Dear Julie, you've asked some good questions and here are my answers. But first, I must say I disagree with you--abortion DOES involve TWO people. The fetus is a person but killing it at the mother's request is JUSTIFIABLE HOMICIDE. You are entitled to kill anything and anyone which is located inside your body.

Now, your points and questions:

You wrote: "asserting the killing of anti-abortion activists as "tit for tat" will be, well, counter productive."

How do you know that? The pro-choice side has been following your strategy--no counterterror, rely on the feds to protect us--going on for two decades now, and what has it produced? A steady pattern of totally one-sided murder and terror. It is time to try a different strategy.

You wrote: "What I want from the anti-abortion movement is more than just mealy-mouthed "condenmations" or worse, excuses for violent people like Roeder."

Me too. And what can we do that will CAUSE right-to-lifers to do more? They will never get serious about condemning and preventing terror until they FEAR terror. All of them. We have to make it just as dangerous to be a public right-to-lifer as it is to be a public abortion-worker. THEN they'll get serious.

You wrote: "The fringe must stop disseminating "wanted" posters of abortion providers, take down websites like "Nuremberg Trials", stop following, harassing, threatening and/or assaultling abortion providers and clinic workers, and cease trying to justify their actions with half-baked quasi-religious mumbo-jumbo."

There's only one sure way to make someone stop doing something: kill them.

You wrote: "Killing anti abortion activists will only give them martyr status and public sympathy."

No, I don't think so, not at this point. The public is aware of the one-sidedness. I think the large majority-reaction to counterterror will be "They've had that coming for a long time".

You wrote: "Plus,what you are saying is probably getting you looked at by the F.B.I."

I've already been interviewed. They just want to be reassured that I myself am not going to do anything violent or illegal. The magic words to make FBI agents go away are "I'm just a writer".

You wrote: "Last of all, why stoop to lower yourself to the level of idiots like Pavane, Stanek and Shannon?"

What I hope to do with regard to those individuals is not as you say, lower myself to their level, but rather, to inspire someone to kill them and their families.

Julie

I'm on your side, Operation Counterstrike, and I know you are angry. But, asserting the killing of anti-abortion activists as "tit for tat" will be, well, counter productive. What I want from the anti-abortion movement is more than just mealy-mouthed "condenmations" or worse, excuses for violent people like Roeder. The anti-abortion movement will not gain any credibility until mainstream members stand up to the extremist fringe and tell them, in the strongest possible terms, "Your behavior is unacceptable. Stop this now or you are on your own." That means the fringe must stop disseminating "wanted" posters of abortion providers, take down websites like "Nuremberg Trials", stop following, harassing, threatening and/or assaultling abortion providers and clinic workers, and cease trying to justify their actions with half-baked quasi-religious mumbo-jumbo.
Killing anti abortion activists will only give them martyr status and public sympathy. Plus,what you are saying is probably getting you looked at by the F.B.I. Last of all, why stoop to lower yourself to the level of idiots like Pavane, Stanek and Shannon?

Julie

THere is ONE person affected by abortion: the woman. ONE potential person affected: the fetus. I'm not sure what you are trying to prove by demanding I "acknowledge this". Why should I acknowledge something on your terms? The blood types and DNA differences are irrelevent. So abortion wasn't the right decision for some women, that is sad for them but they have NO business trying to deprive other women of the right to decide. I never said I didn't like what they are saying, what I don't like is their implication abortion should be outlawed because they feel regret.

45 Million Women Project

I'm tired of hearing MEN telling ME that women regret having abortions and that it means NO ONE should have one.

Most Americans are for Choice. Not all for abortion in any circumstance or in most, but for ALL women having the choice to have one if SHE decides, in consultation with her partner, friend, family, doctor, God, ancestors, whomever she makes her important life decisions with. SHE then gets the final word -- because SHE is the one who is responsible ultimately for either choice! She's going to be responsible for having the most healthy pregnancy possible, for delivery and, no small thing, raising and providing for a Human Life until it is capable of caring for him/herself as an adult. Men, pastors, family members, lovers -- all of YOU can WALK AWAY at any time, and many, many do. But a mother CANNOT. That is why it IS her choice to continue a pregnancy to the creation of a new human being -- or not.

And to those women IN THE MINORITY who say they regret their abortion? THEY MADE THE WRONG CHOICE FOR THEMSELVES. That is a sad thing. But it was THEIR decision, not yours! Not a doctor's! Not a husband or a parent or a church leader's! It was THEIR decision to make. And if they made a bad choice for them, they can join the rest of humanity in being able to say they made a mistake somewhere in their life. Sorry.

People make mistakes. It is irresponsible to then wave it around literally on a stick at ALL WOMEN EVERYWHERE and tell US that we cannot have the choice to make OUR own decisions just because THEY regret the one THEY made!

My arguments are usually written better. But after working so hard to safeguard our rights on top of, like most people, the daily struggle to raise my own family with love and strong values, I am just outraged and EXHAUSTED by these debates. We presented our pro-choice position at Bughouse Square's annual free speech debates last weekend, taking on some frighteningly threatening and abusive male hecklers (one huge man actually grabbed an older woman who asked him to stop drowning me out!) Our presentation drew the biggest crowd of all the debates that day, and we were awarded First Prize Soapbox Champions.

As usual, you so-called pro-life MEN love to promote the women who submit to you and your church. And you HATE those of us who refuse to submit to you. And you'll take it to the Courts and you'll take it to the gun and anything else you can think of to terrorize us into submission.

Too bad so many of us think for ourselves and do not submit to you or your church. We have our own values and beliefs and principles, and we do not need yours -- and we sure won't live OUR lives based on YOUR church!

Don't believe in abortion, huh? By all means, do not have one.

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