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Friday, November 30, 2007

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JEPEEFFONSE

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julia

Thanks for one's marvelous posting! I actually enjoyed reading it, you will be a great author.I will ensure that I bookmark your blog and definitely will come back down the road.

Jen

My abortion was a medical, not surgical, abortion. I caught it so early that it was not able to be seen on ultrasound, despite a positive test, so they thought it was a tubal. After a series of blood tests it was determined it was a normal, but very early, pregnancy. When I aborted at home, it didn't seem any heavier than a normal period and there were only very tiny clots. Nothing remotely resembling a fetus or products of conception was visible.

No "tearing limb from limb" or "brutal killing of innocents" here- really, many pregnancies terminate themselves later than mine was terminated by my choice. Frankly, more babies die in the early stages of pregnancy, post fertilization and implantation, due to environmental issues or genotype/phenotype issues than die due to abortion. Looking at it from the point of emotion or logic, my background with religion or current feelings about the spiritual realm, I have no regrets.

I know that I will someday either have the children I am meant to have or I will not have children at all.

I had a very positive experience with abortion. With some tylenol and a heating pad, it was relatively painless. The bleeding was only slightly heavier than a regular period, and I had very few clots. There was NOTHING that remotely resembled a fetus.

jb

I had a medical abortion, very early, so the imagery of a baby torn limb from limb is terribly inaccurate and histrionic. In my case, it was an embryo in an egg sac that stopped developing shortly after it started. And I have no regrets. I am not suffering in any way. It was the right decision, I was terribly relieved I didn't have to go through with the pregnancy, and I have never regretted for a moment having that abortion.

Julie

Second try at posting this:
Leah - how do you know not enough women consider adoption as an option? They probably did,but rejected it as not the best option for them. Guttmacher has a recent study on why women abort, and most of the women said they did it out of concern for the children they already had,or their future children.
Rachael42-I am sorry to hear you are suffering, but there are women out there who don't regret their abortions. They feel instead that was the best decision they could have made.
The options right now: abortion,adoption,or parenting should all remain open and the states shouldn't be forcing women to jump flaming hoops of restrictions.

Julie

Adoption is all well and good for the woman who decides on that option, but it's not a "magic bullet". Right now,abortion,adoption,or parenting are the three options and they should all stay open. If the woman feels abortion is her best option, then the state should not stand in her way and force her to jump through flaming hoops of restrictions.
Leah-how do you know too few women consider the option of adoption? For all we know, they probably have,but then decided it wasn't the best option for them. There is a recent study on Guttmacher which details the reasons women abort. Some do it out of concern for the children they already have, or any future children.
Rachael42-I am sorry to hear you suffered. But there is a percentage of women who don't regret their abortions. Their stories have been collected here: www.imnotsorry.net

Julie

Adoption is all well and good for the woman who decides on that option, but it's not a "magic bullet". Right now,abortion,adoption,or parenting are the three options and they should all stay open. If the woman feels abortion is her best option, then the state should not stand in her way and force her to jump through flaming hoops of restrictions.
Leah-how do you know too few women consider the option of adoption? For all we know, they probably have,but then decided it wasn't the best option for them. There is a recent study on Guttmacher which details the reasons women abort. Some do it out of concern for the children they already have, or any future children.
Rachael42-I am sorry to hear you suffered. But there is a percentage of women who don't regret their abortions. Their stories have been collected here: www.imnotsorry.net

brandi

God is a wonderful God he knows your heart and he is a forgiving god who loves all of us no matter how short we fall god is real god is wonderful and in time those who dont belive in him in time will

Clark

If someone where to mention what God thinks aout abortion. Who are they? To say they have the devine knowledge, or they know what God thinks? When have not read the entire bible? Or they don't even believe the Holy Scriptures? The don't study it, they don't even practice it. It is a shame to take advice from people that claim God but don't even know how to spell his name.

It is a shame that people argue about abortion. If any person here has true knowledge then they would know God intentions. It is sickning to see people giving advice of their own wicked intentions, the devils purpose is to "steal, kill, and destroy". It's even worse when he uses people to help with his destruction. My words are no opinion, but are the very truth of God's intentions. It is a woman's right to do what she wants, but don't bring God, into something that you want to give information as if you are God.

Leah

Rachael42,

Thank you for sharing your story. Your life is a beautiful testimony to a "choice" that too few women consider. Keep passing on the message that adoption is a choice that the mother AND child can live with.

God Bless,

Leah

Rachael42

When I was 17, I had an abortion. I was terrified. I was very close to my mom and when I told her she took me to our local hospital and I had an abortion done there through her OB/GYN.
At the time I was young, scared and certainly had not lived my life as far as I have now (I'm 42, married and have 3 children). I lacked the life experience and wisdom that comes with age. I really believed then in my heart, that I was doing the best thing for me and for a child that would have been born to teen parents.
Life went on for me.... school, friends, parties, cheerleading, I even stayed with the teen boy that had gotten me pregnant. Until years later, a depression set in. Not the clinical, runs-in-the-family-type, just an overwhelming sense of sadness and guilt for what I had done. I felt such an all-consuming sense of sadness and melancholy. It took me a long time to figure out that I was grieving for my child.
Now, I believe that God loves me, abortion or not. But I was the one struggling with such a feeling of emptiness and gut-wrenching pain over ending my child's life. It was relentless. I tried to drink it away, abuse pain-killers, eat, anything I could think of NOT to deal with what I had done. This all happened without anyone saying a word to me. I was raised in a loving and supportive home. I went to church regularly, I was a teacher and love children! But there was this deep, shattered emptiness inside and the only thing for me that has lessened it is the sacrament of reconciliation (confession) and prayer. I am Catholic now, but wasn't then when I had the abortion. I'm just trying to spare anyone else the horrendous guilt, shame and deep regret and sorrow that comes with abortion. I am not hiding behind my religion, but have to say that in terms of ending your child's life, it is not an option. Give you child up for adoption. There are so many loving people out there who will give your child the life they deserve. I should know, I was a child who was relinquished at birth. Thank God my birth-mom, who I know now, gave me up. I was given a wonderful and loving life.
Ending your child's life through abortion is wrong. It is a devastating act that will stay with you the rest of your life here and in the hereafter. God loves you regardless, but your child deserves the life you started. And for me, reconciling myself to God and my child was the only way I could start the process of forgiveness, both to God and for myself.

Julie

Riiiggttt, Jess. You say I lack logic, but then you turn around and launch right into a stereotype - filled diatribe. How do you know God is against abortion? Can you read his mind? In the bible, God is the biggest abortion provider of all. He rips fetuses from the wombs of the women of the tribes opposed to Israel.
I am constantly amused by the pro lifers who claim they know what God wants. Because it always coincides with their own desires for government control of a private decision of other American citizens.

Michelle

I completely agree with you, Jess. I often wonder if the millions of women who say they "agree" with abortion in this scenario OR in that scenario really visualize what an abortion is. The gruesome act of the baby being torn apart limb by limb. The pain and suffering that has been proven to occur in the first moments of the abortion. To be honest, if it wasn't for the reality of what abortion really is-the brutal killing of an innocent person, then I would also agree with abortion supporters. Women are often in hard situations: low income, bad relationships, multiple children, raped, et cetera. I agree that having a baby in their present situation may be challenging and life altering. It may not appear that it is the best time for them to carry a baby to term, deliver and either raise or give up for adoption the baby that is not in THEIR timing. The "ideal" of choice or having an abortion does make sense on some levels. Have sex because you enjoy it and if you get pregnant you have two choices. You can have the baby or you can have an abortion. Abortion is sold as a quick fix, get rid of it, I don't need any help, no one has to know, fix it and forget it kind of solution. And if that was the truth then I would 100% agree and put my support in it. The truth is that it isn't a quick fix. It's the killing of a baby, but not any baby, your baby. Your mother's grandchild, your husband's or boyfriends child, your child's sibling, your future children's siblings and most importantly a child of God. And for the same reasons that you matter, even though you were once a fetus, your baby matters too. They are not a human sacrifice that can be offered up to God in exchange for a college degree, better relationship, more money and time, the list goes on.

But to say you believe in God but not have enough faith that he can change your situation just doesn't make sense. Your current situation may not be your future, God has a great plan for everyone even if it doesn't make you feel good and happy at this very moment in time. So for one woman to make the assumption that another woman does not have the potential, ability, or grace of God in order to change her situation is ridiculous. And then there are those women who want to finish college, focus on their career, focus on their two beautiful, wonderful, easy children. But how do they really know that their child may re-direct their career to something even better or be a blessing to the children they already have. Maybe that child would be the one that would eventually take care of that women in her old age. Why aren't those even possibilities? Why can't women really offer the support to other women who need it? Why do we continue to encourage our sisters to make the choice of death selling it as the solution to her problems.

Women who support life are not against our fellow women. We are not unrealistic of their current situation and trials. The truth is that we love that woman's child so much that we want it to live. And our hope and prayers are that every mother will love their child that much too. I am not pro-life because I think I am too good to ever have an abortion. I haven't had a perfect life without the "need" that turns many to abortion making me unaware of the feelings a women having an abortion is faced with. I am not in denial of the harsh world we live in. I have a story very similar to many women who have choosen abortion. But thankfully I made what I know is the BEST CHOICE and I hope that more women can live in peace with a choice that gives life to another. Respect theirselves, their bodies and their unborn.

Please Note: I know that there will be responses to this post stating that you do not believe in God, that you own your own body and have control over what goes on with it, many women you know have had abortions and don't regret it, it is your right to choose, et cetera...We all have opinions and these are just mine. And for those who will ask if I am doing anything tangible to help women facing the abortion choice, the answer is yes, I am.

Jess @ Making Home

Diatryma,
The truth is, so few abortions actually happen in order to "save" the life of a mother that it's statistically inconsequential. Abortion happens primarily because someone isn't thinking of others but is ONLY thinking of themselves-- (focused on "what will people say?" "what am I going to do?" "I can't have this baby." "He'll _____ if I tell him I'm pregnant... I can't live with this.", etc.) 90% of women who see the baby as a baby, in a sonogram, choose to have the baby (whether they keep it or give it up for adoption, or whatever). When we help a mom to get the focus off of herself, we can save TWO lives-- the life of the mom AND the life of the precious unborn baby.

This is not an issue of whether or not we want to save mother's lives. That scenario happens so infrequently it is virtually not worth discussing. This is an issue of whether or not we will choose to save children's lives.


Julie,
Your arguments lack logic. "Playing God" is not when someone takes their hands off of a situation and lets the chips fall where they may. "Playing God" is when someone takes an instrument into their hands, rips limbs, crushes skulls, extracts body parts, and then reconfigures the unborn baby into a whole baby to be sure that all the pieces were removed. That's taking on the role of God. And THAT, frankly, is what's offensive about this whole situation. We are foolish to sit around and make excuses for these woman and act like they can just murder their children and it's "beautiful".

Look, the name of God was invoked by the very title of this post. I didn't hijack this thread and make it about God. The entire post was derived in order to thwart the truth about God and somehow twist it so that "God's OK with abortion, and abortions are OK with God." Which is absolute nonsense. It is arrogant for one to invoke the name of God to be trendy, but then take his place and arbitrate decisions which are life and death decisions for another human being. THAT is playing God, and it's heart-breaking.

Agatha

I thought this was an exceptionally powerful post & wanted to say thank you for sharing it with us. I think that the journey a woman takes to reconcile herself with her choice is a deeply personal one & should not (& cannot) have to be justified to others.

Thank you for sharing this, I look forward to your posts in 2008.

Diatryma

Jess, if God is the arbiter of life and death, if God is the only being who can decide whether a person should live or die, and therefore we cannot kill... does it follow that we cannot save as well?
Does it mean that some abortions are not only okay but required by God?
Does it mean that we should withhold medical treatment from anyone? Just those who are not Godly?
Does it mean that an abortion to save the life of the mother is morally (rather, Godly, because you do not say whether or not God is moral or arbitrary) justified or even required? What probability of mother's death is required before God will sanction an abortion?

I agree with you that I cannot judge the morality of someone else's abortion. But I think the only person who can is the person having it-- she's the only person who can know her situation well enough to judge.

"God said so" does not mean it is moral. "God said so" does not mean it applies in any way to modern society; we violate what God has said in myriad ways.

Have you read church writings on when a pregnancy becomes a person? When a soul is added? It's not fertilization, I'm pretty sure it's only recently been implantation, but I'm not well-read enough. There's a fair amount of reading to be done before you can say simply that God said no abortions; this has been going on a good long time, and I expect any religion to have had its own discussion on it.

Julie

Well, Jess. That's all fine for you and belief in God is your lookout. But I don't believe in your God and I don't agree an invisible deity judges anyone or decides when people are born and when they die. And I just have to laugh when pro lifers wag their fingers and come off like they can read God's mind and claim God agrees with them on the subject of abortion. Think about it, isn't making yourself the sole spokesperson for an invisible deity also "playing God"? Pot.Kettle.Black.

Jess

My supposed "silence" has nothing to do with being intimidated or fearful of coming back and answering you. Rather, I've been spending the last week or so having special moments with my three children-- making cookies, preparing for Christmas, playing at the park, and delighting in their joy at the special times we've shared.

As for your verses that show God taking life, you are right in a sense, Linda. God is the giver and taker of life, and He is the only One who is trustworthy to do so. He made us. We owe our lives to Him, and no person should take the life of another. He is the Creator of all of life; it is selfishness and arrogance and a desire for ease and comfort that would bring anyone to think otherwise. God is indeed the only One who can rightly judge between life and death. This is the reason why abortion is wrong-- for the same reason murder is wrong. Because it is a situation where we (as foolish, flawed humans) take the life of another who is made in the image of God. We take a sacred gift: a human life and arrogantly assume that we can judge whether that life is worthy of taking breaths and loving and walking and seeing blue skies and jumping into swimming pools and marrying.

THAT is why we're against abortion. Not because death in and of itself is wrong... we all die. But God is the giver AND taker of life, and when we seek to take His place and instead make ourselves the judge of who can live and who can die, our arrogance and pride is evident in that "choice".

I hope that makes my thoughts more clear to you. It is not whether or not life is valuable-- it is-- and God is the sole arbiter of who lives and who dies... whether at day three (from some kind of deformity or problem) or at year one hundred and three. God alone can rightly judge death and life.
~Jess

Zee Harrison

First of all I agree with Linda (although I am not a revolutionary communist!).
Abortion is never easy. No one wants to find themselves in a position where they have to consider an abortion in the first place. Although I have never had one myself, I have supported my friends and family who, for a variety of reasons, have made the difficult decision to terminate a pregnancy.
I think bringing in a spiritual dimension at such a time is awful. Instead women should be told the scientific, medical and emotional aspects of abortion. How are they likely to feel afterwards?, how can they cope?, what services are available?, who can they talk to about it?, etc. I believe we need to move beyond the ancient texts and more in tune with the available knowledge we have at the moment. If you need to have an abortion - I support you. If you choose to continue the pregnancy - I support you. It's your choice.
No need to pray, no need to invoke the 'gods' just give women support and more relevant non-dogmatic information. Simple as that.
http://www.blackwomanthinks.blogspot.com
Zee Harrison.

Linda

I don't know why it posted my comment twice (second time that's happened) -- too bad there's no way to just delete a duplicate. Sorry, y'all.

Linda

Stacie,

First of all, I'm not just an atheist but a revolutionary communist, so any chances I have of accepting the "love" of a nonexistent Harvey the Rabbit-like figure are zilch. But thanks for the thought.

And my point is on this "taking the Bible out of context" is:

a) It was GOD HIMSELF who commanded revenge to be carried out on the Midianites. So when did this vengeful, murderous being become the God of love and compassion?

b) Jess quoted from Psalms (and you, Stacie, did too) as proof that since God made each person (does that mean he bears responsibility for all children born with crippling, horrible diseases, like the little girl whose facial bones were growing so big they threatened to split her skin and made her an outcast? Since he made each person himself, and all. And does that mean we should accept God's creation and not alter it by giving the little girl surgery? After all, he must've had a purpose in creating her that way, and who are we to have any other desires?) But more importantly, Psalms is supposed to prove that abortion is killing a baby and God doesn't approve of killing babies. But the passage I quoted, about smashing babies' heads against a rock, is from ... you guessed it ... PSALMS! So which do you use to bolster your argument, since they're pretty damned contradictory? How about you just admit that you pick and choose the passages from the Bible that make your point (Psalm 139) and ignore the inconvenient and contradictory passages two verses earlier in the same book (137)

Hmm?

Linda

Stacie,

First of all, I'm not just an atheist but a revolutionary communist, so any chances I have of accepting the "love" of a nonexistent Harvey the Rabbit-like figure are zilch. But thanks for the thought.

And my point is on this "taking the Bible out of context" is:

a) It was GOD HIMSELF who commanded revenge to be carried out on the Midianites. So when did this vengeful, murderous being become the God of love and compassion?

b) Jess quoted from Psalms (and you, Stacie, did too) as proof that since God made each person (does that mean he bears responsibility for all children born with crippling, horrible diseases, like the little girl whose facial bones were growing so big they threatened to split her skin and made her an outcast? Since he made each person himself, and all. And does that mean we should accept God's creation and not alter it by giving the little girl surgery? After all, he must've had a purpose in creating her that way, and who are we to have any other desires?) But more importantly, Psalms is supposed to prove that abortion is killing a baby and God doesn't approve of killing babies. But the passage I quoted, about smashing babies' heads against a rock, is from ... you guessed it ... PSALMS! So which do you use to bolster your argument, since they're pretty damned contradictory? How about you just admit that you pick and choose the passages from the Bible that make your point (Psalm 139) and ignore the inconvenient and contradictory passages two verses earlier in the same book (137)

Hmm?

Stacie

I forgot one! God loves us if we provide abortions, too. Don't misunderstand - he knew each of us BEFORE we were formed in the womb. Abortion destroys someone he made and loves dearly. Nevertheless, when we repent and receive we find forgiveness from God because Jesus paid for it on the cross. NOTHING can seperate us from the love of God! Thank you, Jesus! :)

Stacie

Ladies,

The passages from Numbers need to be considered in the context of the Old Testament. It's very easy to take verses from the Bible, out of context, and use them to promote any point we want.

The truth remains that Jesus died to reconcile us to God. There is no sin that he doesn't forgive if we repent and ask. He loves us and made each of us just to have a relationship with Him. Linda, God knows you and HE made you! His right hand holds you fast! He knows the thoughts he has towards you - and they're to prosper you, not to harm you! :) No matter what you believe about who God is, I challenge you to ask Him to show you who He really is.

He loves each of us - whether we're pro-life, pro-choice, or we've had abortions. What we do doesn't change Him and His love for us. Although, we must live with the choices we make for the rest of our lives, and the consequences they bring. His Word, the Bible, (taken as a whole!) shows us how to live our lives. You'll soon see that people are not perfect - Christians, included. Read His Word to find out who he is - don't look at people. :)

obarurnq

Linda, their silence may be telling, but not telling what you wish it was.

As for the post, I think the twisted delusion of it all speaks very well for itself:

... “Me and the baby are going to work through this together.”

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