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Saturday, November 25, 2006


Dr. Who

Abortion is a right but it is nothing to
celebrate. It is a traumatic experience for
the woman, and it should not happen over and over
again. If it is more than once, than the
patient should be required to get counseling.

I am afraid that young people are under the false
impression that they can swallow a little pink
pill and dissolve an embryo like swallowing an aspirin
to relieve the pain of a headache.
At times you actually have to push out the rest of
the fetus. Some of the developing embryo remains
and the call it products of the condition. (I
am not a nurse but I worked in a clinic. I am
not documenting medical procedures, factually.)
My guess is anything remaining in the uterus could
grow and develop into a tumor, later to be viewed
by an ultrasound, and scraped out with a d&C. (medical
question) Also, in the express clinics accidents happen. Sometimes
it so fast between patients that they see don't have time to clean the
equipment, and the patient has
to return to clear up an infection.

Twelve year olds contemplating a sexual relationship,
is frightening. They should be planning their
future not their next sexual encounter. We don't
want children having children.

Abortion is a right and a necessary evil, but it
should never be used as a birth control method.
It should be a private appointment in a hospital.
We should never have it in clinics where the patient
is frisked before the appointment, and expressed
through the procedure by Dr. and Nurse Who--and
sent home to recover wondering if the pain and
bleeding following are normal, or should they
go to emergency.


I honor their baby and love them all. I just wish they had given their baby life for the last few days instead of death. In this extreme example, there are many issues. Issues of ending personal pain as Cin had, issues of ending a life early so that it would not be born past the 20 week mark...far enough past and born alive there might be medical treatment. Issues of delivering a baby a bit large[URL=http://hometown.aol.com/rkd2kswe/abortion-clinic/free-abortion-clinic.html]free abortion clinic[/URL]


No, not bitter. Funny how you present yourself as this big, caring, concerned professional counsellor who's all about women, but then post comments like that.

Just tellin' it like it is, you big fraud. Your words were the first clue that you're not who or what you claim to be on the internet. No professional counsellor would spew the kind of cold, hateful, cruel words you do at people.

And stealing someone else's credentials is a crime, punishable by jail time, babe.

I plan on seeing that you get it.



I remember you. You're the bitter one. Welcome back!


I'm never really surprised anymore by the really sleazy and vulgar tones of the "pro"lifers. I've seen that "spread your legs" thing a gazillion times from the prolife set, especially the men. Which speaks volumes about how they truly view women and life.

And then we have yet another moronic prolife statement -- just give the baby away! No biggie! No prob! Suuuureee... People who make statements like that ought to have their own kids taken away from them so they can experience the reality of that stupid-ass comment. If you want to give a baby away, give one of yours away. Otherwise, shut up, because you're a mindless, insensitive bitch.

And then there's good 'ol Jacqueline, the pathological liar with her blather about rights. It is a woman's legal right in this country to have an abortion. To say it isn't is a lie. Oh...wait...this is Jacqueline the pathological liar we're dealing with...'k...I get it now.

More BS about adoption...how a woman who aborts is depriving a couple who has a right to her baby. If a couple can't have a baby, that sucks. But that doesn't mean that women who are deciding to continue a pregnancy or not have a moral obligation to provide one for them. Women in difficult situations are not incubators for the wealthy. That's actually a very sick and twisted mindset.

Here's the deal: want a baby? Have one.

Can't? Unfortunate, explore adoption, but DO NOT EVER coerce, force, guilt, or manipulate another woman into giving you her child. It ain't yours, no matter how bad you want it. Women who do that are equally as bad as women who cut open other women's bellies and remove the babies, or steal them from strollers.

Don't want an abortion? Don't get one.

Want one? Have one.

Ain't ever anyone's business but yours, and the phony, lying, manipultive prolifers don't give a flying fuck about you. They just want your baby for their market, is all.


I know with my D&E for a missed miscarriage at 16 weeks, the cervix was dilated with laminaria sticks that acted as sponges which dilated me over night. If I had been farther along, they could have done this in two days. I don't think they're so brash with forceps as to use them to open teh cervix. I believe there is a tool used to hold the cervix in place while the procedure is done, but not to open everything up.

What was the hardest for me is knowing that my baby came out in pieces and that I didn't get to see him, but everyone in the surgery could...and pathology. I don't know how it is for those who abort, if they wish they could have seen the baby or not. I know seeing him not intact would have been very hard.


I've previously heard the accusation forceps are used to "force the cervix open." But after searching around, I've read a drug is used to relax the muscles so the cervix need not be forced. Bon or Lou, could you do a post on the exact procedures used during an abortion? The air needs to be cleared. Thanks.


How can a tree shedding a leaf be compared to metal dialators being forced into a closed cervix to pry it open, so that instruments can kill a baby that afterwards must be removed in pieces? Furthermore, how can a leaf be compared to a human life?


for those times
Abortion - Complications and consequences


I am glad you stood for life. My friends, sadly, did not. I know that they were suffering and the baby was going to die anyway. Still, I think the damage they did was more to themselves than anything. I know they are prolife, and forever now, they know they chose to end their baby's life. Many people feel no regret (or at least claim not to), but I know the mother agonized this decision. I know she'll feel guilty for life. She was pressured by medical people and family to abort, and was told she had no options, really. However, her baby was less than weeks away from death. The heart was already slowing when they did the procedure. It was awful, and I would never say anything negative to my friends. I honor their baby and love them all. I just wish they had given their baby life for the last few days instead of death. In this extreme example, there are many issues. Issues of ending personal pain as Cin had, issues of ending a life early so that it would not be born past the 20 week mark...far enough past and born alive there might be medical treatment. Issues of delivering a baby a bit larger. Maybe they wanted to see their baby with no deterioration from death in the womb. Maybe it was seen as a mercy death for the baby. I don't agree with what they did. I wish they had done it differently. That's how prolife I am. I mourned the baby's death, but I mourned more for my friends. I do know them, and I know they will regret their decision (and maybe regretted it as it was happening). I sure wish it had all been easier for them. I didn't add to their pain by saying anything, I know they had people advising them on both sides. They made up their own minds.

Still, their situation is different still than this woman. She just viewed her body as "done" and therefore, sacrificed her child. Same result, death of a baby, but one couple who wanted the baby lives in regret and mourning, and this woman, well, she's celebrated here.


Cin, I`m sorry you had to go through what you did. But I am equally offended by what you just said. "Try real pain?" You don`t even know me! No, I didn`t have HG, but you know just as little about what it was like to be pregnant in my particular body as I do in yours.

Whatever pain you willingly chose to endure does not set the bar for what any other woman is required to endure for any pregnancy, wanted or nor.


To Cin and those who chose to continue a pregnancy in spite of high risk: it's your choice. Yours. Would you accept a doctor telling you that the chance of a healthy baby is too low to justify the risk that you'll die, and giving you an abortion against your will? Why accept a doctor telling another woman that she has to continue a pregnancy? You chose, and I support that choice. Women choose to put themselves at risk for others, and whether I consider those others to be 'persons' or not, I accept that it's their choice. You choose what happens to your body, not the doctors, the lawyers, your parents or priest, you, and saying that no other woman in the world has that right... nope, not working.

This is somewhat off-topic, but something I've wondered about lately. Is there anywhere I could find data about prochoice or antichoice (as Cin demonstrates, choosing to continue a pregnancy is affirming choice) and things like organ donation and blood donation? I consider pregnancy to be much like organ donation-- I don't think that it is wrong not to donate a kidney to a stranger, though I'm glad people do, and I don't think it is wrong not to donate a uterus and nine months to a stranger, though I'm glad people do. But I know rabid prolifers (the kind who invite clinic bombers to tell the Truth About Those Murdering Whores) who refuse to do so much as donate blood.


I kept my baby.... she is nursing in my lap right now.

HG near-death experiences are not as uncommon as many people think. What sometimes happens with severe HG is the mother goes into renal failure, and the baby dies in utero. Or renal failure happens, and the mother has an abortion to save her own life.

With proper, aggressive tratment, even severe HGers are less likely to get to the point of renal failure or heart failure. But it does happen. A lovely lady named Maria and her twins dies last Nov. 25. MAria was being treated and fed via IV. She died of heart failure due to starvation. The twins died with her.

The biggest problem is many OBs offer HGers abortion as the first or second line of treatment, rather than actually treating the disease. Can you imaginedrs doing that for gestational diabetes???

Many Hgers would rather die than abort. The ones who do abort often suffer tremendous grief afterwards. So I find it offensive that anyone here would liken a normal, healthy pregnancy to a disease or as so inconvenient that a baby has to die. Come try real pain, suffering, dehydration and starvation for awhile.

Aborting for convenience like Glorietta did seems unconscionably selfish. Ever hear of adoption, for goodness' sake?


I didn't get it at first. You still chose to keep your baby despite your severe malnutrition and dehydration? Am I right here? I thought you were saying you aborted. Sorry.

My friends had a baby who was going to die, and the mother had severe morning sickness to the point that she had lost a lot of weight. She was very ill, and doctors told her she was risking her own health. She did have an abortion. I was very sad (they are prolife normally), and don't know if her life was truly at risk or not...but the only thing she had kept down in 14-16 weeks was jello...and only that toward the end when the baby was dying.


link about severe morning sickness showing that it's treatable in most cases, so Cin's is truly rare. I know that offers Cin no comfort. My miscarriage at 16 weeks was considered to be "rare" as we'd made it past the dreaded 12 weeks, heard a heartbeat, and baby was growing right on schedule. It offered me no comfort to know I was in the low 5% of people that loose babies after the first trimester. I think my chances were even lower as I've had successful pregnancies.

Anyway, my point was the link showing how rare a life is in jeopardy if treatment is given early. So, Cin, if you were surely going to die, you can feel that you had no choice, right?


I am sorry it's so life threatening for you. It's rare that the condition you have is actually life threatening. Most women, with treatment don't have it life or death. Wow, it must have been difficult for you. I hope you have been able to find couseling or someone to comfort you.

I don't really completely understand what you are saying, but am I right that your mother was raped? Then, is it that you were raped too? I am sorry that you feel your life isn't worth living. I am also sorry for your mother and for you if you were each raped. I was fondled as a child once, but wasn't penetrated. That experience is still with me. My cousin was raped, and it has affected every day of her life. I really and truly am sorry.

Rune C. Olwen

Some individuals here need to be told what "life" is like if you are a product of rape and an abortionforbidding law. It means that the raped woman can be made to survive physically but is NEVER able to stop vomiting. Most of the time she cannot even in the presence of the moralizers suppress her revolt and of course, she is not able to even conceive of the concept of a "will" or a "decision".
I speak from experience, at age 6 I stumbled over the word "wreck" for what I was supposed to call a "mother".
I was in the generation to get information about physical things and decided I would NEVER EVER let myself be touched of my free will. Only to be pressured I had to have a man and go to neighbor´s parties - by the second landlord yesterday!!!!!!!!!!!!
And the church - and individuals here - demand, I should be glad that the wreck was denied an abortion (I learned self defence, but the chance to kill the rapist before he forces his genetic thrash inside me is not perfect either - even if I manage forever to stay away from all alcoholic situations.) and want to live the same horrible existence!!!!!!!!!!!!! I DO NOT. Most emphatically: I NEVER WISHED TO LIVE AND NOT ONE SECOND WAS WORTH LIVING.


Pregnancy _is) a disease for me -- a disease called hyperemesis gravidarum -- and I still think abortion is wrong. It's not my daughter's fault my life was in danger due to the pregnancy.



As long as the my body is acting as the incubator for a fetus that is not yet a person, not yet viable outside of my body, then, indeed, it is only MY business to decide what happens to my body and its contents. Again...you speak of the rights of a baby which does not yet exist. No one is suggesting partial-birth abortion here. I am simply telling you that your convictions on when a person becomes a person will never be mine, and therefore, you will never convince me that I should abide by your ideals.

And I'm not the only one.

And I vote, too.

So, you worry about what you do with your own body, and I'll worry about what I do with mine...and I'll be as irresponsible or responsible as I like, and really, it will NEVER be any of your business.


Would you really stand aside and allow someone to poison herself, vacuum herself to death, or tear her members off with forceps? Somehow, I doubt it.

Even if I "exercise proper control and make wise decisions" with my body, my contraception might fail. Or I could get raped. I admit the odds against both are pretty great, but there are circmstances in which, if someone were to say to me, "There is no other way around it. YOU don't get to decide what happens to HER body. Ever. At all. End of story," I would say, sorry, but this story is going to have a very different ending.


"What I do with my body is none of your business. Period. There is no other way around it. YOU don't get to decide what happens to MY body. Ever. At all. End of story."

Settle down. No one was condascending to decide what you do with your own body. If you want to poison yourself, vacuum yourself to death, tear your members off with forceps, etc. that's absolutely your business. It's your body. Doing that to your unborn baby, however- that's where your rights stop and the baby's rights begin. Besides, it's her body. There is no other way around it. YOU don't get to decide what happens to HER body. Ever. At all. End of story.

Besides, if you exercise proper control and make wise decisions with your body, there'd be no "need" for an abortion, would there? You delight in what you do with your body being your decision, therefore make good decisions rather than imposing your will upon the body of your unborn baby. It's not that difficult.


Someone else mentioned "a woman's hate for babies" before I wrote it, I don't know who you are responding to Christina, but I think it's me. I personally know a couple who desperately wanted their child but had an abortion due to medical issues with the child. She was 18 weeks along, and was mourned. No, I know that abortion is not always a baby hating activity.

No, it's not easy to give a baby away, but I know that my uncle was given away by his mother, and he was raised by my grandmother. It was probably very hard for her, but my grandfather in law actually had a child this way (and no other). I was not aborted by my mother despite her being a teen. She didn't give me away until I was 5, I'm sure there was something difficult for her in that. I know abortion is not always an easy choice, I know that giving a baby away can be hard. I'm just glad, in the cases I have seen when a woman could have aborted based on awful situations she took the brave path of delivery, and allowed a baby to live.

I know educated people have abortions, my friends are very educated, they are in medical and engineering fields. Education has nothing to do with it, neither does feeling love or unlove for the baby. No, what matters is doing the right thing. Abortion is stopping a growing, living, genetically different being from existing. I think that life should be protected in all cases unless the mother's death is reasonably sure. I wouldn't ask you to save a baby on the rail road tracks if you were most certainly going to die, but I would expect you to do something for that baby if it were possible. Even if it were difficult and there was some risk, I would hope you would save that baby. Same with an unborn child.

Now, you will do what you want to with your own body. You are right, as of this date I cannot stop you. I am not a law maker, I am not a Supreme Court judge, nor a prosecutor. But, I am a voter, and am a citizen of the U.S. and I will work hard for the unborn. I have a right to express my voice just as you do.

My choice is to never abort a baby of mine. Even in rape, even in inconvenience, even in great risk. Only if I am going to die with near certainty and the baby cannot survive, only then would I abort. That doesn't make me better than you, it just means I value my unborn children higher than you do in those difficult circumstances.


"A woman's hate for children"??????

Are you kidding me? You think that only a woman who hates children could have an abortion. Then surely you have no idea the desperation a mother feels when she finds out that she is pregnant again and has no idea how she is going to take care of the children she's already raising, let alone another one. Oh, so she should carry a pregnancy full-term and then "give 'it' away"? That's your solution? Yes, indeed, that's easy, too, I'm sure. How many babies have you given away?

Your beliefs that life begins at conception drives you to determine that abortion is horrible, but many of us do not believe that life begins at conception--that it is only the possibility of life until such a time that the fetus can survive outside the womb (with or without medical intervention). You care more about the rights and well-being of a fetus than you do of a living, breathing woman who may well not survive having another baby or giving one up for adoption.

If you don't like abortion. Don't have one. Stop trying to impose your ideals on those of us who are just as educated, evolved and sophisticated as you think you are. What I do with my body is none of your business. Period. There is no other way around it. YOU don't get to decide what happens to MY body. Ever. At all. End of story.


Please, stop the GENOCIDE. If you don't want/can't afford to have a baby, there are many ways to prevent it. But once you have a new life inside you, please RESPECT IT!

I just got a cute t-shirt at http://www.cafepress.com/heartbaby and there many are others at http://www.cafepress.com, buy one and show the world you LOVE LIFE AND RESPECT IT! Also, please sign any on-line petition against abortion, like these:


There are many more petitions, find them and sign up! Let others know about this and have them sing up too. ACT NOW!

If a woman chose not to have a baby so be it, I respect her, but since there are so many ways to prevent pregnancy, I CAN'T SUPPORT ABORTION!

Thanks for your time, and sorry if this is the wrong place to post this.



Daqwn, even though I don`t agree abortion should be illegal, I agree with what you say in your last paragraph, and I personally don`t know any pro-choice people who would object to any of it.

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