« iraq again | Main | correction »

Sunday, October 22, 2006


Little Amazon

I just read Bon and Lou's chapter in the book, "Abortion Under Attack". I was very moved by the story about the young man and the flower mourning his unborn. I am very grateful for an outlet such as abortionclinicdays. I feel that people cannot truly understand or appreciate what clinic workers do on a daily basis until they are behind the scenes themselves. Behind all the signs, t-shirts, buttons, and media hoopla, it's a whole other world.


Christine - you are most welcome.

Annie - my heart is not "hardened", but continue to believe that if it makes you feel better. Mainstream Christianity just leaves me cold because it offers me nothing but illogical fear-based dogma. That is why I left the Catholic church for the Unitarian/Universalist Fellowship and I'm very happy here.

Jacqueline - eternity doesn't scare me, unless I have to spend it with people like you "witnessing" to me. Then, I might be a little apprehensive.


I have always been pro-choice. Were I not I would still want to have legal abortions available in this country. You cannot stop abortions. You can only stop legal, safe abortions. You can insure that the only people doing abortions are those who are willing to work in the shadowy world of that which is illegal. You can insure that the only person with any medical knowledge or experience will be someone who has been denied the right to practice legally by his peers. That is the real world. More women will die or kill themselves. If you think that God thinks that is a good thing you might want to ask Him.

If all the people who feel driven to tell everyone else what God will do to them and what is wrong with what they believe would spend that time praying to be a source of healing and love in the world it would be a nicer world. In fact if they would just spend that time praying for humility and compassion it would help. When Jesus said "Whatever you do unto the least of these, you do unto me." he was saying whatever you do to anybody even those you think don't matter - you do to me. All the people you feel you have a right to treat with hatred, threats, castigation and arrogance - everybody you encounter - the way you are treating them is the way you are treating Him. That is worth at least a little time to think about. Before you go after one other person who you know is going to hell, why don't you go ask Jesus what he would like you to be doing in the world. I bet he won't tell you setting people straight. I bet he will start telling you what he would like you to do about yourself.

I'm done. Now the people who did not spend one second praying about any of this can jump on me a bit.


I've been told?? LOL

Is that anything like "You've been served"?


I'm not condemining anyone- I'm explaining how to be redeemed.

It's not actions that condemn; it's not actions that save. That's what my "religion" teaches, that a relationship with Christ is God's gift of salvation. People don't judge as they have no authority. God judges, but He revealed how He does so for our benefit to escape condemnation. I just explained what He said, and although it's good news, you still want to shoot the messenger. I'm sorry that you find the good news of salvation so disturbing, but I'm pleased that I won't be held as irresponsible for not telling you.

You've been told. I'll depart.


You know, if you'd just keep your mind focused on your own eternity and leave me to suffer in the depths of this firey hell you've had drummed into your brainwashed mind, that'd be great.

Yours isn't to condemn me to an eternity you have no real knowledge of, nor is it to yours to judge me or my actions, right? Isn't that what your religion teaches?

Funny how people pick and choose which of their religious virtues they want to focus on...


People are saved by grace through faith. Pinpointing heaven and hell on a map negates faith.

My failure to "prove" that it does exist doesn't conversely mean you're proven that it doesn't exist. The only item of consequence is what is at stake if I am wrong.

If I am wrong, I've lost nothing. If you are wrong, then your eternity it a frightening thought.

I'll stay right where I am. I know what my eternity was going to be like before I accepted Jesus. I am grateful to have been saved from it.

The gospel of salvation good news, y'all, not an insult to any of you (nor does it merit your collective insults back at me). I pray one day you'll accept the free gift that is being offered to you.


"Because if it's a real place, then it has to have, you know ... a *location*."


A plot mark on a map grid?


Linda Flores

I have actually read the Bible, and read those parts. You've described what this place looks like, smells like, etc. But where is it? Can you even narrow it down to a continent? Is it in South America? Greenland? Alpha Centauri? Pluto?

Because if it's a real place, then it has to have, you know ... a *location*.


Anyone else wanna join me and my fellow non-Christian heathens in hell just to get away from Jacqueline's holier-than-thou self?
Jacqueline, your sense of reality is so very, very warped.


"What matters is being decent human beings and treating each other, no matter our beliefs, as human beings with dignity of life."

Yep, killing our offspring in the womb and euthenizing our elderly and disabled...sure seems like "dignity of life" to me.


Hell is a physical place according to scriptures. A lake of burning sulfur, a lake of fire. Since you didn't follow the link, here's a cut and pasted reference of Jesus Christ's teachings:

Jesus Christ, the Son of God, described Hell as:

A place of outer darkness where there will be weeping, wailing and gnashing of teeth (Mt. 24:51; 25:30).
A place to be avoided even if it means losing the physical members of your body (Mt. 18:8,9).
Prepared for the devil and his angels (Mt. 25:41 cf. Rev. 20:10).
A place where the fire is not quenched (Mk. 9:43-48).
A place of regret, torment in fire and no water (Lk. 16:19-31).

The LAKE OF FIRE (second death) is:
A fiery lake of burning sulfur (Rev. 21:8).
Where death and Hades will be thrown (Rev. 20:14).
Where the smoke of those tormented there goes up forever and they find no rest (Rev. 14:11).

Jesus Christ said this, not me.



Re-read. I explained the Gospel. I never threatened anyone with hell. How can you threaten people with something you don't wield? I can't damn anyone anymore than I can save anyone. Jesus can and I'm explaining that He wants to. That's it.

I'm not giving a wrong image of God- I'm just saying what the Bible says. I have not misrepresented his teachings. But I feel like even if I cut and pasted from the King James Version, you'd still find some way to attempt to degrade me.

Perhaps my spelling isn't that great, but why are you so hateful?


First, if you want people to take you seriously, please learn how to spell correctly. Secondly, by threatening people with hell, you become like the pharisees who in all likelihood did go to hell. As a Christian, I would assume that you remember the parable about having a log in your own eye, while pointing out the speck in somone elses eye. Maybe you should actually pay more attention to what the Bible says instead of doing Jesus a disservice and spouting off things that don't reflect on his teachings. I am not trying to attack you, but I feel like you are using Jesus' name in a wrongful manner. To the rest of you, I am going to assume,bear with me, that you all have at least a smidgen of an understanding of philosophy. Heaven, and Hell are both thelogical and philosophical questions. Therefore the answers to the aforementioned places existence cannot be sought in materialistic and physical ways of thinking. To those of you that said "prove Hell exists," I am asking you to prove your own existence in a philosophical and/or theological manner a.k.a. in the manner of Descartes, Aristotle, etc. The point is, neither party can prove either party right or wrong and in the end it doesn't matter. What matters is being decent human beings and treating each other, no matter our beliefs, as human beings with dignity of life. AND QUIT THREATENING PEOPLE WITH GOD AND HELL!!!! A+ on cementing peoples wrongful image of God.


I agree, Christina. Y'all obviously don't know the definitions.

THERE! That was condascending. First time this thread.

I guess ya'll win. I just condascended. I couldn't help it...It was wide open...


I think someone needs to look up the definitions of "condescending" and "obnoxious" in the nearest Websters...


Christine- I agree--Jesus is all about forgiving people. You have to repent and accept his sacrifice and forgiveness though.

Apart from that, there is hell. This is the truth.


I'm not being condascending nor obnoxious. I'm simply sharing the gospel. I haven't said anything mean at all, regardless of what was said to me.

Annie- by what these people are saying, they don't know the gospel. You can't be saved apart from it. Why would I not share it?

The Bible is clear on Heaven and Hell and how works do not save you. Even if you find me obnoxious and condascending, that won't damn me, either. I am neither, but regardless, being good people doesn't save you.

Salvation has nothing to do with good deeds. Salvation has nothing to do with the goodness of the person who recieves it. It's a free gift from a loving God that doesn't want people in Hell, hence Christ's life, death and resurrection. Apart from the price Christ paid for our failings, there is an eternity separated from Him because we are not holy and He is.

Christine,***I never implied that women who abort go to Hell.*** People that work in soup kitchens and devote their lives to agreed-upon good works go to hell. I know many women who have aborted that have accepted Christ and are assured of going to Heaven. It's only Christ's sacrifice that is an acceptable payment for sin.

Read Romans in the Bible or just check this out:



If you (Jaqueline) want to talk about God, I think you are forgetting that Jesus was all about forgiving people. He's not going to send anybody to hell just becasue she was in a desperate situation in her life and did what she thought was the best action. Next, for Linda, I don't know about the other religions, but for catholics, our definition of hell is simply the absence of God. So we don't consider it a place. It is an intangible "feeling." I think all this arguing about hell is stupid, because what really matters is how we treat people here on earth and if we are good, kind, persons.


I came visiting this blog by way of The Heathen Housewife's blog -- an interesting blog with mostly knitting and recipe info on it. WoW! I was curious about the name of this blog...and it looks like I walked right in on the Big Discussion that I've heard in one form or another for what seems like 50 years!

Give it up, you who are in here trying to "convince" people about the truth of what Jesus taught. You know very well that your arguments or rantings or whatever you say will have no influence whatsoever on someone whose heart is hardened. They cannot hear you. They cannot believe what you say. You know very well that only the power of the Holy Spirit can speak to their hearts. Period. So stop all this I said, you said, he said, she said stuff. It's a waste of everyone's time.

Once upon a time you did not believe. And now you do. Whether or not that will be the case for them is not up to you. Go spend your time doing something worthwhile....truly.


"God does forgive for those that accept Christ and his death and resurrection as payment and surrender to Him."

Well, Jacqueline, I happen to be Jewish, so I guess I've got a one way ticket to hell no matter how many good deeds I do in this life.
But you know what? I have a feeling that if there is a hell, and I end up there...you'll be there next to me.
Being as obnoxious and condescending as you are is not very nice. Not very...Christian. But then, what do I know about the Christian definition of nice, I'm Jewish, right?


Julie and Linda...thank you for speaking my thoughts for me in a much more eloquent and succinct manner.


Quoting Jacqueline: "There very much is a hell. Just because you reject it doesn't mean that it's not real."

I say: Conversely, Jacqueline, just because you say so doesn't mean it is. If you want to argue the existance of something, I can only respond: Prove it.


Mymom - all caps is considered shouting and so very rude. Don't be surprised you are being ignored because you come off like a surly child.

Jacqueline - the concepts of hell and sin were invented by early church leadership to keep the "flocks" scared and toeing the dogmatic line. You can keep on and on about faith till you are blue in the face, but there are some facts you can't talk away. 1) the bible is not the literal truth 2) Jesus was a real person who died because he challenged the relgious status quo of the time 3) Even if there is a hell, no truly loving deity would send people there simply for not believing in a particular religion. 4) If you can't come up with a better answer to Linda's question, then just stop dodging and admit it.


I can't prove a thing to you, Linda. It's faith (grace through faith) by which we are saved from hell through Jesus Christ. You don't beleive in hell and perhaps see yourself as perfect and not in need of forgiveness. There I cannot help you. When you recognize that you are sinful and need salvation, Jesus is waiting to accept you. Until then I won't be able to satisfy you with an argument, like when I was an unbeliever I wasn't satisfied.

So, where are you going to go when you die?

The comments to this entry are closed.