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Sunday, March 12, 2006

Comments

Becky

I know that this is an old posting but I couldn't help but want to reply as I am from South Dakota. I am pro-life and I voted in support of the abortion ban. The reason being, that I believe that abortion kills a human being and I believe that abortion is unfair to women. I have nothing but sympathy and compassion for those that choose to have an abortion. I have actually enjoyed reading this site because it brings up the very real reasons women choose abortion. Women shouldn’t have to choose between a relationship and an abortion, between a career and abortion, between feeding her children or an abortion, between an education and abortion. I view abortion as a symptom and a cause of societal problems. It is not simple and it is not easy a fact that I feel this site points out very compassionately. I grieve for the fact that these women didn’t have effective birth control and I grieve for the fact that we as a society didn’t give them the support they needed to carry their pregnancy to term and either raise their children or give them up for adoption.
One person wanted to know who would care for those children if abortion were illegal. And many of the posters had very good responses. The reason there are any children in this country without homes is because of a broken system that does not effectively match these children up with parents who want them. The parents are out there.
However so that I cannot be accused of hypocrisy I will tell you that I have personally offered to adopt the child of a friend considering abortion and I will always morn the loss of that child as she decided to have the abortion anyway. I have personally taken in a teen kicked out of her home for continuing a pregnancy and helped her to find a resolution with her family. I am a foster mother. I do all of these things because I believe in the value of human life. However I resent the implication that I am not educated enough to have come to that decision on my own. People assume that I arrived at that conclusion only because my priest said so. That is inaccurate. I am pro-life because I have a degree in biology and understand fetal development. I find it impossible to deny that a fetus is a human life. That brings up the last issue I wanted to address. Diana S keeps asking about embryos. An embryo in a fertility clinic not implanted is a tragedy. It is irresponsible to create more embryos that should be reasonably implanted. Most pro-life people do not support the destruction of those embryos any more than they support the destruction of a fetus. However those embryos are eight celled and are still undifferentiated tissue. They only hold a (at best) 20% chance of implanting and growing. By the time a woman even suspects that she is pregnant those tissues have differentiated. All organs are formed and everything needed for life is their. Only time and growth are needed. By the time a woman even tests positive on a pregnancy test the heart is beating or will soon start.
However I believe that both an embryo and fetus have value. Those embryos also can teach us a lesson. There was a huge outcry when President Bush denied funding to anyone creating new stem cells lines from embryos. However as a result of that decision amazing new research as been done and other methods (such as adult stem cell, cord blood cells) have been developed that work even better as potential treatments than the original stem cells ever would have. Without the ability to destroy those cells we found another, better way of doing things. Hopefully if abortion were to end we would find another, better way to help women. Maybe we would begin to value women and children enough to offer affordable childcare, flexible education and work environments, paid maternity leave, better health care, and better birth control. Maybe once we valued women and children more there would be less abuse of women and children and we would be stronger as a society.
If you’ve read this far I congratulate you on your open mind.

Jacque

Why not?

Here are some websites of interest:

http://www.theshorthorn.com/archive/2005/spring/grad/g-socwrk.html (This site declares the MS I hold. Under the Master's degrees))

http://www.sunbiz.org/scripts/cordet.exe?a1=DETFIL&n1=N05000003105&n2=NAMFWD&n3= (Demonstrates the the Wake Me Up Foundation is a real registered corporation)

Anything that was more difficult to google just isn't worth my effort. Case in point: There is no Gaupp scholarship page. I can't find the graduation edition on my undergraduate newspaper.

That was very much my resume and it's 100% true, thank-you-very-much.

Jacqueline

Wow, people.

I have all the degrees I claim. All the organizations I work for are properly documented with the state tax offices. Check with the state of Texas for Abby Women's Center and with the state of Florida for the Wake Me Up Foundation. Both are 501(c)3 organizations. I got the Gaupp scholarship in 2004 I think...or was it 2003? I got it from UTA. I went looking for a website of recipients and I can't find one. I found the University Scholars site, but I wasn't a university scholar. That's a separate honor.

Check with the Universities from which I graduated. UNT in 2003 and UTA in 2005. I'm also currently a Ph.D. student in the Public Administration department at UNT, so I'm not *just* a sidewalk counselor at all.

Slander much? The only reason I would think you are so venom on my accomplishments would be because you have NONE of your own.

Diana S

Lisa, first thing is, congratulate yourself for seeking help. You are very responsible and brave for facing your situation and wanting to do something about it, even though it is scary. And none of the choices are good ones, none of them are what you wished for.

You may not believe me, but it is NOT YOUR FAULT. You are living the contradictions of our American culture. Do not blame yourself, lots of smart, responsible young women get pregnant. Trust yourself, even though you are in a bind it does not mean that you have bad instincts. You wanted the connection of a relationship, and sex was a natural part of that, of wanting a partner, someone to share experiences with, someone who would be on your side. He can still be on your side.
The most important thing you have are your instincts. So be brave, find courage in your heart to trust that you will make it, whatever the outcome you will.

Like most women (yes it happens a lot) I was also in your situation. I chose to have an abortion. Even now,20 years later, I often question whether I did the right thing. But When I made the decision I knew, that I had spent so much time and effort researching the options, and I told myself then, that if later on I doubted my choice, I would never be as informed about it as I was at that moment. But it was so sad, the saddest thing ever, just like losing a child that I wanted. I don't believe it is a sin, no one says fertility clinics are murderers yet they routinely kill embryos. And I knew that I had to do it quickly because at that point, the fetus had not yet developed any perceptions.

No one knows how hard the decision is unless you've been through it. So be brave to do the work that no one will do for you: really visualize the outcome of each option. Being a mother does not start with the birth, it starts when you decide to go through with it. If you do, you have to make a nurturing environment for your future child. You have to stay away from smokers, you can't drink, you have to get enough sleep, eat right, have a positive attitude, and more. You have to get regular check-ups, etc. After all the love you devote to your future child, can you give her away? Do you know you can give everything, every ounce of yourself to giving it the best start?

Only you know, and in my case, I knew I wasn't able to give it the best start in life, so it was not fair to bring a child into this tough world without it. I made a compassionate decision. It was not selfish.

You will not have the answers right away, let the answers come in time. Some parents do come around to understand their daughter's situation, maybe they will, maybe they won't. I can't tell you. You are an adult now, if they look down on you that's their failing. Not yours. They might be more helpful than you think. Don't have an abortion just because you want to hide the fact that you got pregnant. That is a bad reason. Unless they are abusive of course.


I wish you a lot of luck, and strength to make the best of an impossible situation. You feel conficted because you care, you care about this potential future child. we were all fetuses once, that's where we come from, that's what makes it so hard.

Lisa Logan

I am 16 years old and i am thinking about getting an abortion because i cant face my family and i am scared and i dont want people to look at me diffrently and i dont want to let my parents down after all that they have done for me and all that they have invested in my life its going to be hard to face the pain that i will see if i were to tell her and i dont know what to do the father of the baby will be there and he said he is happy that i am pregnant but i dont know what to do i am not to far to get an abortion but it is in consideration for me cause thats all ive been thinking about and i know its a sin but im am really going to pray about it and ask god what he wants me to do with my life and about the situation and hoew to handle the reactions of my mother and father so i thank you all that you have this so that i can write you and get my feelings out and tell you how i feel so please if you can get back to me with some advice thanks.

Pandora

Suggest you read a little closer...they don't even want little Susie in the waiting room. The kids and I were able to wait for hubby his last procedure in an actual waiting room, but I guess this surgical facility wasn't tying to emulate your average abortion mill....our local mill is equally child hostile. But hey, what can you expect?

I also enjoyed their charming statement regarding removal of laminaria against medical advice...very important to make sure those who chicken out are properly informed that they will not be recieving more than %20 of already collected dough back.

How come you pro-aborts don't go after mills that give out "misleading" information? You sure yell when anti-abortion folks do.

Pandora

Suggest you read a little closer...they don't even want little Susie in the waiting room. The kids and I were able to wait for hubby his last procedure in an actual waiting room, but I guess this surgical facility wasn't tying to emulate your average abortion mill....our local mill is equally child hostile. But hey, what can you expect?

I also enjoyed their charming statement regarding removal of laminaria against medical advice...very important to make sure those who chicken out are properly informed that they will not be recieving more than %20 of already collected dough back.

How come you pro-aborts don't go after mills that give out "misleading" information? You sure yell when anti-abortion folks do.

N.

Whatever. Doesn't make her any less of a liar.

That there is misleading information being disseminated by abortion clinics does not justify lying on the part of prolifers.

And children aren't allowed in ANY surgical situation, unless you think it's a good idea for little Susie and little Justin to be running around the operating table playing tag while grandpa has his bypass surgery.

Again, if you use anything but the truth to try and get your message across, then you can't expect other people to see the truth. Duh.

Abortion isn't bad because a mobile abortion clinic forbids small children to be running around while they're performing abortions.

Stick to the truth, if you even remember what that is, and you might make some headway.

Pandora

Actually, I got quite a kick out of the link Jacqueline had posted on the blog you lead me to, for Aaron's Women's Health Center. Note how this facility claims it's an "ambulatory surgical care center". Truth in advertising really ought to demand they advertise "We're your basic abortion mill". I also enjoyed the admonishments to the clients that children were not permitted inside the clinic, perhaps they might disturb some of the more sensitive folks who find themselves there? Or perhaps this "ambulatory surgical care center" only wishes to handle dead children.

N.

A visit to the UTA site of actual Peter G. Gaupp Scholarship Award Recipients shows that Jacqueline sure did spend a lot of time cutting and pasting! Only from other people's resumes!!

My God, but you people are pure evil. You'll stop at nothing to shove your sick religious beliefs down other people's throats. You want to force women to do what you want to do, so you lie to them about everything.

N. from TGC

BTW, the only place "Abby Women's Center" and "The Wake-Me-Up Foundation" exist is in Jacqueline's demented, delusional, lying, moronic little head.

I guess this is how Jacqueline reaches out in love and compassion to women. She comes here, where it's very likely a woman thinking about an abortion might find herself, and she spews hatred and contempt all over the place, LIES about a bunch of degrees and positions she has, and then has a bratty little hissy fit and runs away like the cowardly, lying little cunt she is when someone calls her on her lying shit.

How do you filthy pigs live with yourselves? Why is it that almost every prolifer here has turned out to be a pathological liar? Teri, Christina, Jacqueline, Paige, Zelda, etc...?

That's very telling. Very telling, indeed.

N. from TGC

Oh, and her best little buddy in the comboxes? Christina aka "granny grump".

What a pack of lying cunts you two are. Why would anyone believe anything you two have to say? How can you justify lying? When you lie to people, you prove that you have zero respect for their lives.

You make me sick.

N. from TGC

Hysterical.

Jacque/Jacqueline isn't a social worker, and she doesn't have any of those degrees.

She's a "sidewalk counsellor". That's all.

She's never had any foster children in her care. That was an outright lie.

She's nothing but a religious nutter who stands outside abortion clinics and screams at women.

But then she's already exhibited her unique brand of "compassion" here.

http://sidewalkcounselorsunited.blogspot.com

Why are prolifers ALWAYS liars?

There's definitely something wrong with the message if you have to keep lying.

Fucking wankers...the lot of them. I hate fucking liars.

Diana S

The reason women with unintended pregnancies are scared and confused is that abortion is too morally charged to be dealt with openly and honestly. Every twelve-year-old should be given an "are you ready for a child" questionnare to work out when it is right to have a child and to know how likely it is to need an abortion.

If we did allow young women to work through the issues honestly and thoughtfully then they will not be scared and "driven to abortionist". Many will weigh the issues morally and carefully and, like me, decide on an abortion for all the right reasons. It was the most thought out decision I ever made and because of that I am comfortable with it. I don't think it would be a good thing if more potential abortions became babies. It would lead to more suffering. A baby required 100% of a woman's resources and attention. If they don't get it, they are doomed. It is the theme of Mary Shelly's _Frankenstein_. If you create something you can't love, it becomes a monster. Already too many babies are being born only because their mothers didn't want to have an abortion, not because they could care for them. Stop creating monsters.

Diana S

The reason women with unintended pregnancies are scared and confused is that abortion is too morally charged to be dealt with openly and honestly. Every twelve-year-old should be given an "are you ready for a child" questionnare to work out when it is right to have a child and to know how likely it is to need an abortion.

If we did allow young women to work through the issues honestly and thoughtfully then they will not be scared and "driven to abortionist". Many will weigh the issues morally and carefully and, like me, decide on an abortion for all the right reasons. It was the most thought out decision I ever made and because of that I am comfortable with it. I don't think it would be a good thing if more potential abortions became babies. It would lead to more suffering. A baby required 100% of a woman's resources and attention. If they don't get it, they are doomed. It is the theme of Mary Shelly's _Frankenstein_. If you create something you can't love, it becomes a monster. Already too many babies are being born only because their mothers didn't want to have an abortion, not because they could care for them. Stop creating monsters.

Diana S

Why doesn't anyone answer my question about why don't "pro-life" people don't try to stop fertility clinics from destroying embryos, or creating more embryos than can become babies? Why don't they go after them?

The truth is, abortion ia a MORAL choice.
It is IMMORAL to bring a child into the world who will not be cared for. There are not enough good adoptive parents to go around for every potential abortion to become a child. When I had an abortion, it was right after the Joel Steinberg/Hedda Nussbaum tragedy was coming to light. The woman who gave her baby to Joel STeinberg did not want to have an abortion. Instead her baby suffered a horrible fate, worse than never being born. How could I give up a baby to an unknown fate? Why bring it into existence if I couldn't look out for her? NO, A FETUS IS NOT A BABY! An 8-week getsation is NOT A PERSON YET. TO EQUATE ONE WITH A PERSON IS TO INCREASE THE REAL SUFFERING IN THE WORLD! Read Freakenomics... The reason for the decline in crime in the late nineties is because of the increase in abortions in the ealry eighties. WOMEN KNOW WHEN A CHILD SHOULD BE BROUGHT TO THE WORLD. WOMEN ARE MORAL! Let them decide. They know!!!

Pro-lifers, quit moralizing and just give all your money to support a woman who wants to see her pregnancy through and can't for financial reasons. That's the best contribution you can make.

N. from TGC

I think many abortions could be prevented if there were less people like Jacqueline in the world.

How many troubled, scared, confused young women are met with that kind of self-righteous, cold, uncaring abusive crap and are then driven right into the hands of an abortion clinic?

There are so many people who label themselves "pro-life" and like to scold and rant and wave things in people's faces and call names, but who aren't willing to show a little compassion or actually sit down with someone who needs encouragement and who needs to know there is support and that the obstacles aren't as insurmountable as they might seem. It's easy to be a bitch and to point fingers and fling accusations, but it takes real love and real sacrifice to actually help someone in need.

Sarah

I've never posted here, but I am very much pro-life... although I have to admit that reading here makes me really understand better why many aren't as staunch as I am personally. How many could you sign me up for? I think, since we seem to be having fertility issues and were hoping/planning for a large family, up to 10 (at a time, think about more after some are grown)... that's a number I am comfortable with, having been the eldest of 10. Granted, with special needs, I would rather do half that and be able to give each child the time and attention they deserve.
Better yet, I would want to help the mother with whatever her needs (financial/support/whatever she needed that I was capable to give) are so that she could mother her own child.
This site breaks my heart every time I come here, yet I can't resist. I wish I could help every person who finds themselves in such a difficult place, and I wish I could make it so that no baby ever had to die. But I know realistically, that won't happen. Babies will die from birth defects, from disease, and from abortions whether spontaneous or induced. It makes me cry, but I know some can't be helped. I wish they all could though.

L.

"It might make you 'feel' better, but it doesn't change the fact that you killed your own baby."

Jacqueline, I don`t care who you are or what your credentials are -- I only hope you do NOT counsel post-abortive women, with such an accusatory, confrontational stance.

N. from TGC

I'll need your full name and the years of graduation/service so I can verify. As you well know. Anyone could have written that there. It proves nothing.

Also, the oh-so-disingenuous disclaimer is a dead giveaway.

Jacqueline, I never said abortion is "just fine". You're assuming I'm not pro-life because I didn't allow you to condescend to me and hurl your abuse at me.

You're always excusing yourself as soon as someone points out that your tone and attitude are counterproductive to your message.

I don't believe you're any of the things you claim to be, most especially an adult.

If you are really here to present a pro-life message, I suggest you stop harrassing people and dumping your anger and spitefulness on them. You'll catch more flies with honey than vinegar, you know.

Jacqueline


I've never had an abortion, thank-you-very-much. But you present an interesting point: Why would a post-abortive woman need to be in denial is abortion is just fine?

I can't beleive I did that. I actually opened a folder and cut and pasted a part of my resume. I shouldn't have cared enough about your accusations enough to answer, so from now on, I won't.

I'm an adult, and I am excusing myself. You guys have fun bashing me!

Jacqueline

Cut and paste...It's going to be a format nightmare. Also, this is my research resume not my therapy resume, but it's all I have on this computer:

Master of Science in Social Work May, 2005 University of Texas at Arlington, Arlington, Texas§ Concentrations include Non-Profit Administration and Community Practice§ Peter G. Gaupp Scholarship Award Recipient§ Member of Phi Alpha National Social Work Honor SocietyBachelor of Social WorkUniversity of North Texas, Denton, Texas August, 2003§ Twice Recognized National Dean’s List § Twice Honored President’s List Recipient§ President of the Social Work Student Association§ Secretary and Member of Phi Alpha National Social Work Honor Society§ Perfect 4.0 Grade Point Average in Social Work

Abby Maternity Services, Arlington, Texas Program DirectorAbby Women's Center, Dallas, Texas Director of Social Work ServicesWake-Me-Up Foundation, St. Petersburg, Florida Non-Profit Administration Consultant

N. from TGC

Diana S., don't let her get to you. She's not a social worker, nor a foster mother, and I believe the anger and abuse she's hurling at others are symptoms of her own conflict over choices she's made in her life.

A true pro-life woman would certainly be kinder and more compassionate. All this person has done is flung abuse and vitriol at people. She hasn't presented a compelling argument for her position at all. She's not interested in discussing anything with you. She's written us all off as unqualified to discuss the material. She's presented her voice as the only voice allowed on this thread. She's only here to abuse people who've had abortions.

She comes across as a classic case of a post-abortive woman in denial.

On the surface, she's lashing out at you, but she's really lashing out at herself.

Jaqueline, if you're reading this, your time would be better spent resolving your own issues rather than abusing others. At the very least, it would make you a better spokesperson for the things you say you believe in and support. As it stands now, you're only shooting yourself in the foot.

Diana S

Your lies anger me, but they don't hurt. You are pathetic. I love my baby. I did not kill her. She is an unusually happy 9-month-old. She gets absolutely all of my attention, devotion and love and that helps the fact that she is doing so well. No I was not in an ideal situation when I got pregnant... I was living with an abusive man, in a town far from my family, not independantly wealthy. But I left him and have structured my life around my baby's best interests. It is very hard, and I have made many sacrifices but you know why I did it? Because I knew this time, I wanted to give everything to raising a child. Not because of your "righteous" principles.

10 years ago I was pregnant and I realized I didn't have what it took to see it through. It was a quick procedure and sad but I am not ashamed.

You are so filled with contempt and eager to hurt people, I can't imagine who would give you a job as a social worker. So you can preach and feel superior to your clients?

N. from TGC

//I don't think any of you are in a position to discuss child abuse.//

Also, I'd like to see a justification of this statement. How am I not in a postion to discuss child abuse? What are you basing your opinion of my "position" on? Is this an example of how you evaluate situations as a (supposed) social worker?

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