Fetal Tissue

Sometimes the crazy anti-abortion fringe is all over "a controversial issue" before we as abortion providers are ready to talk publicly about it. Well, not this time! I am willing to talk about fetal tissue, what happens to it, how we treat it, and how donation of fetal tissue could help science and mankind.

I just read an anti-abortion newsletter that was so ranting and inaccurate that it inspired me to respond. At the same time, we are exploring the donation of fetal tissue for research. This seems like such a positive thing, especially when there is a lockdown on support for embryonic stem cell research.

This anti-abortion person is claiming that there is no "public record of what happens to fetal cadavers", which is a fascinating re-framing of what all government regulations treat as "hazardous waste", as they do any human tissue, be it blood, tumors, parts removed by surgery etc. There are very strict guidelines about how all human tissue is handled, and medical waste is a very well regulated business, the Sopranos not withstanding. It is ultimately buried or burned. But of course, the real reason for the rant is that the anti's want to be able to harass the medical waste people, the operators of the incinerators, which are often hospitals, and of course US! And this moral outrage comes from the people who have literally stolen fetuses from pathology labs, clinics, etc. and paraded them around in shoe boxes, pawed through them on video, and generally exploited--not respected--fetuses.

In my clinic, we wash off the tissue and examine it. It is treated respectfully and put with the woman's first name into a container. We show it to patients if they ask to see it, and make sure they understand which part is the sac (later the placenta), which part the pregnancy if visible (after 9 weeks), and which part the lining of the uterus. People have been known to pray over it, write notes for inclusion, "baptize" it, etc etc. Some clinic staff have also been known to say a little prayer over it--thanking it for its sacrifice so that the woman could continue on the path she was on.

We are now exploring giving the option for women to donate fetal tissue to research efforts. This would be completely at the discretion of the woman, but typically women feel that "something good can come of this" and agree to it enthusiastically. The whole process is highly scrutinized and regulated by an IRB--Institutional Review Board whose job it is to look at the ethics of research and using human subjects. And by law no one can be compensated for participation--not the woman, not the clinic, doctor, or institution. It is simply illegal, and you can bet that the high profile practice of abortion would get a thorough looking over.

I am belaboring this point because this anti-abortion newsletter details the "selling of body parts" with outrageous price lists. They are reprising a story that has long been discredited. A pathology lab was infiltrated by an anti, to inform on the abortion industry, but instead created a set up of lies and sensational fabrications. One small point will show you how none of their accusations would even make sense: all samples sent to the lab by clinic like ours were packed in formalin, a very toxic preservative that destroys all research value.

But the good news is that, in certain situations, much good can come out of a fetal tissue research program. All the flap about embryonic stem cells from leftover in vitro fertilization is moot, since the decision has been made by the woman to terminate the pregnancy. Fetal stem cell lines are already showing promise in certain medical therapies. Ironically, because of the partial ban on stem cell research by the Bush Administration, other countries are forging ahead with the research, and American scientists are trying to associate themselves with scientists in other countries. The problem with this is that standards are different in other countries and there are not the stringent guidelines and protections that there are in this country. Another misguided Bush policy that creates a worse situation than it was trying to fix.

I am imagining how different the debate might be if the American public knew that incredible advances in science and medicine came because women were generous enough to think of others in the midst of their difficult time.
--bon

Comments

[sara]

I have had an abortion and although I felt like I had no other choice, when I missed my baby, it was like watching a bad movie over and over again hoping there is going to be a different ending. If I had any other option provided or felt like I had a choice I wouldn't have had an aortion. I have mourned my abortions for years now. It has affected every part of my life in every way. There isn't a day that goes by that I don't wish I hd all my children with me.

[Brandi]

I am really relived to read this. I have had abortions myself, and let me tell you PAS does exist, but all the same I am happy that my babies wee not what the prolifers say. Abortion is very hard for any woman. It is not a choice you want to make. It is a legal freedom though and it should be treated with respect by the entire medical community. I had many times in my life where I wasn't able to afford birth control. GUESS WHAT? THE WORLD ISNT PERFECT YET.

[Linda]

Dammit --- despite the draconian "no pasting text" and other anti-spambot technology, here comes Dr. Whathisface with spam.

Grrr.

[Julie]

Jena, typing in all caps is shouting and considered very rude. And Bon has ten times the guts you do, but she's not stupid. There are some dangerous lunatics on your side who would be happy to murder her in the name of their "god".

[Jena Bean]

WOW! RESPECTING FETAL TISSUE. THAT'S JUST INCREDIBLE. I MEAN... WHY DO YOU BOTHER? I DON'T UNDERSTAND. THAT MAKES NO SENSE. YOU JUST EXPOSED YOURSELF. MOTHERS PRAYING OVER THEIR DEAD BABIES....HAVING THEM BAPTIZED. THEY JUST EXPOSE THEMSELVES AS WELL. IT'S OBVIOUS THAT BOTH THE DOCTOR AND THE PATIENT KNOW WHAT THEY ARE DOING. THEY ARE KILLING THE UNHEARD CHILD. THEY JUSTIFY IT...OR THEY TRY SO VERY HARD TO. WOW AREN'T YOU SO GRATEFUL SOMEONE LET YOU LIVE! AREN'T YOU SO GLAD YOUR MOM AND HER DOCTOR LET YOU LIVE! AND WHO WROTE THIS? THIS --BON? DID I MISS SOMETHING OR ARE YOU TOO ASHAMED TO EVEN REVEAL YOUR NAME? FOR SUCH AN ARTICLE ON A WEBSITE YOU COULD AT LEAST HAVE THE GUTS TO REVEAL YOUR NAME. --"ANTI" JENA BEAN

[Dawn Lewis]

I had an abortion due to fetal demise (at a hospital in day surgery). I did not terminate as the baby already died, but was 16 weeks and the ob didn't think it wise for me to "go natural." I have been wondering what happened after pathology, but the doctor and a nurse in L&D would not tell me. I want to know where the remains went and what happened exactly. Do you know what is standard for fetal demise/D&E remains in hospitals or how I can find out? I could handle the information that my child had died, and could handle what the surgery would mean...that my child was taken out of me piece by piece. I surely could handle knowing where the remains went. Do most hospitals cremate the remains themselves or send them off somewhere else? If I knew, I would feel at least some closure, but have not even gotten a response from my insurance company. I do not plan to go "looking" for the general remains, I just want to know what happened to my child.

[Tabitha]

So a woman donates the dead fetus but the clinic gets paid for it? Shouldn't the woman get some sort of kick-back?

When you give blood you get a free koozie and t-shirt. Why not when you donate your dead kid?

[fs]

I see that this is an older post. I hope that your clinic was able to work it out so that women can donate the tissue. When I had my abortion I asked about donating it, but the counselor said that at that point they weren't able to do so. (This was back in 2004.) I'd have liked to have done so.

[SUZANNE]

In my clinic, we wash off the tissue and examine it. It is treated respectfully

Wait a minute-- you treat TISSUE respectfully, like it's from a human being, but you don't have enough respect to not kill the human being.

I am in favour of the equality of the unborn child. All pro-lifers should be. I want constitutional rights for unborn children, including any future children I may have. The outlawing of abortion would be a result of this. If abortion were banned, but unborn babies were not given equal rights, it would be to no purpose because their rights would be taken away again.

One day, abortionists will,like the racists of old, come to realize their grievous error in opposing the rights of unborn children, because unborn children will obtain those rights. I'm sure of it, as sure as I am of the sun being in the sky.

[Molly]

If it is okay to murder children in the womb than why can't we kill them after birth??? I mean it's not like were having kittens or puppies or ponies. If the pregnancy was allowed to come to term a mother would have a human baby. So if it is okay to kill the human baby in the womb why can't we kill them after birth?? The only difference is that babies get oxygen from the mother versus the air that we all are lucky enough to be alive to breathe!!

[maltesekitten]

I came to this page to see 'what was out there' on ABORTION. I wanted to see because I am going to learn how to make a website of my own on HEALING from abortion. Men and women. Why? Because I had an abortion when I was 17 years old. I went to planned Parenthood, and they only asked if this was what I really wanted to do. At the abortion clinic, after waking up from the asnethesia, SREAMING and clutching the Doctor's white coat with my fist...I was just told to get dressed and go. No counseling. All my friends at work, all in their 30's and 40's, the father 33, all told me what a responsible and grown up thing I had done. My mother was aware I was going to have the abortion; she offered to help me, but I was not living at home (that's not an excuse for her - She still had the legal power to STOP me!) and had already made up my mind.
Now at age 50 I am taking myself on a jouney that allows me to publically say what I did, and what I am now going to do to grive and let go of the guilt. That is what will be on my web. All about my process to face what I did and what I did to heal. my email address is: [email protected], just in case you would like to view and or share my journey. It's not up yet, as part of my task is to learn how to build the website. But if you want to see it when it's done, please email me and I will give you the lanch date.

[Dan]

You have got to be kidding right? The overall feel of your article is dark, cold, and barbaric. How can you honestly sleep at night knowing that you are personally responsible for ending lives? All of the feelings, thoughts, emotions, and experiences that these humans would have felt...gone..because of you. Fetal tissue? what is that? Does the "fetal tissue" ever look at you? Does "it" ever try to breath after you kill it? Do the muscles spasm? Do you have your first killing hanging in your office to be proud of? You are very sick people.

[Sara]

I didn't see any contact info, so I just thought I'd ask here: why are there such things as "abortion clinics?" Why don't you just go to a hospital to get an abortion? If you work in an abortion clinic, you don't just spend 8 hours perfoming abortions I assume, but is that most of the work done there? It just seems so odd to me that a place that provides lots of types of medical care is called an "abortion clinic" or that a doctor who works there is called an "abortion doctor." Don't they perform abortions in regular hospitals? If not, why not?

[Zelda]

Oh, there are guidelines for the disposal of human tissue, blood, etc, but abortionists don't always follow them. And they are rarely enforced. How many visits have you gotten from the department of health? How often do they make sure you are disposing everything properly? How is it that there is an industry that is free to destroy women and children at will and still be unregulated?

Everyone has their sad stories for wanting an abortion. But none of them are as compelling as a fetus struggling to live. Let's see if Ms. Hired Assasin here will tell us about how the babies reflexively move away from her as she begins their murder. Let's see if she'll tell us what her mentor, George "Let's kill 'em up to birth" Tiller has to say about injecting the babies with sedatives so it's easier to shoot the digoxin directly into their little hearts?

[Absentia]

Not to my way of thinking, Curious. I'm entirely pro-choice, probably more so now that I've experienced being pregnant for a while. I cannot imagine trying to insist that someone else go through it when it's something they don't want.
Of course, in my situation, there was no "right" choice, in that there was no decision (termination/attempting to carry a doomed pregnancy to term) that was going to have a happy ending. My husband and I made our choice based on the information that the doctors gave us - I did my own research on the topic and the procedure - I got a second opinion - and I feel, if not comfortable, then at least sure that the diagnosis was correct.
Amazingly, I actually had someone say to me that they thought doctors might lie in order to get women to abort pregnancies based on poor prenatal diagnosis. I think that shows a profound misunderstanding of what prenatal testing is all about, and a really disturbing lack of faith in both the medical profession, and the intelligent decision-making ability of women.

[Curious]

Absentia-

What if the doctors were wrong? Would that have made what you did wrong?

[marisa]

Wow - your post really brings back the days that I worked as a clinic assistant. Bravo for the website - this is a fabulous idea!

[L.]

Absentia, it works both ways. I know lots of pro-choicers who oppose sex-selective abortions, for reasons other than preventing gender-specific genetic diseases/conditions.
And sorry you had to go through what you went through.

[Absentia]

I had an abortion at 14 weeks because if the fetus survived to term, it would live a short life filled with pain. It was the most caring thing I could do - end it's suffering before it began. I'm not sorry I did it. I'm sorry I had to make that choice, I'm sorry I had to go through it, but I'm not sorry that I decided the way I did.
Since then, I've joined a few support forums for women who've aborted due to "poor prenatal diagnosis." The vast, vast majority of women who've aborted have done so because of absolutely fatal disorders, not because the child wasn't "perfect." And yet, when people talk about selective termination of a wanted pregnancy, the phrase "not perfect" always seems to come up. Sure, a baby without a brain, or one with all of it's limbs merged with the uterine wall isn't perfect, but it's not viable, either. Interestingly, some of these women who have had terminations for PPD still described themselves as anti-abortion. I'm fascinated by that.

[DP]

"Pain control exists in abundance"

And none of it is effective for some forms of pain. For example, the pain that occurs with glycogen storage diseases, many of which are good examples of the hypothetical that vicky proposed.

[lichen]

Hey Jivin J,

Tissue is sent to pathology, not to be researched, but to make sure that things are as expected. After most surgery, abortions included, a pathologist checks out what was removed. It would be terrible to make a mistake (for example) about whether something was cancer or not.

[Jivin J]

Maybe I'm misreading this but it seems odd for Bon to state, "all samples sent to the lab by clinic like ours were packed in formalin, a very toxic preservative that destroys all research value."

If the preservative destroys the research value then what's the point of sending the the tissue samples to be researched?

This wording is also interesting - "which part the pregnancy if visible"

Why doesn't Bon say "which part the fetus or embryo if visible" - why the need to mask what were talking about? Using the "pregnancy" to describe the tissue of the unborn is odd, especially considering the placenta and uterine lining also play a role in pregnancy.

Bon also seems to not understand the current legal situation with embryonic stem cell research. There is no "partial ban" on embryonic stem cell research. There is no federal ban at all. Bush's policy restricts which experiments can receive federal funding not which experiments can legally take place.

"thanking it for its sacrifice so that the woman could continue on the path she was on."

Its sacrifice? Doesn't a sacrifice usually require consent of the individual doing the sacrificing?

[Julie Shockley]

Ron, thank you for taking my question seriously. I know very little about sewer and medical waste treatment in general; but there must be some provision in waste treatment already as you mentioned for other kinds of human waste which carry the same health risks as fetal tissue. So I would conclude then that this is not a problem. Thanks again.

[Ron Sullivan]

Julie, are you asking about residual drugs in the sewer system, or about the aborted fetus or embryo? Drugs, ironically enough, seem to be an environmental problem; some observers are looking hard at hormonal drugs (contraceptives, HRT and others) and, antidepressants in particular as the source of residues that harm aquatic animals. The problem from those, of course, is most likely only a small fraction of that from pesticide runoff (which includes hormone mimics) and sloppy fertilization.

As for the blood, sac, embryo and all, it's nothing new to the system even if it's not supposed to be filtered out and returned -- I don't know the procedure myself. Spontaneous abortions -- "miscarriages" -- into toilets have been more common for years than drug-induced abortions are now. Anything coming out of a uterus, like menstrual blood, had darned well better be about sterile or the woman will be pretty ill. Blood (like urine, which also emerges as about sterile) is a great medium for microorganism growth once it's exposed to the outside, of course.

[Julie Shockley]

I have a question about the medical waste aspect of abortions induced chemically. I understand from a recent article about Mifiprex that women are at times given this drug orally, to be followed by a vaginal suppository that induces a miscarriage, at home. I assume this medical waste is going to go in to the sewer systems.

Is there any legitimate reason for this to be of concern to the public health?