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Wednesday, April 06, 2005

Comments

cw

Kenzie, thank you for posting this. It is wonderful to see young people who understand the importance of abstinence and the evil of abortion. Please keep what you have written in mind despite the daily temptations and lures of the disgusting culture of filth in which we live. Remember that one of the major reasons for promoting sexual immorality is that it allows a small segment of the population to get rich. If the money wasted on the industries benefitting from sexual immorality was used to fight poverty, poverty would be eliminated. The only way to be 100% certain of avoiding an STD is to practice abstinence.

God bless you, Kenzie.

cw

DP, having read some of your other messages here, I think you are far too intelligent to actually truly believe what you wrote.

Let's use a different scenerio. Assume a person with a rare blood type is killed in a car accident involving a drunk driver and dies. The person indicates that all usable organs may be donated. Someone else with the same rare blood type is in desperate need of a heart. The person who needs the transplant is then saved. Despite the fact that another person's life was saved, would ANYONE be happy at the tragic death of the donor? No. And clearly, the drunk driver could NOT claim in court that it was a "good thing" because another person's life was saved.

NOBODY feels rape is a good thing. (On the other hand, it must be noted that some advocates of legalized abortion frequently use rape as an alleged justification for legalized killing of babies in the womb.) However, once the rape occurs, nothing can be done to eliminate the evil deed. IF a baby is conceived as a result of rape, killing that baby will not eliminate the past. It is NOT the baby's fault that the rape occurred. Thus, the baby should NOT be given the death penalty as a result of an evil act by his or her father. It is bad enough that there is ONE victim of rape. Killing an innocent baby conceived as a result of the rape would mean there are TWO victims.

The events must be separated. In the hypothetical example I listed, it is great that someone's life was saved. It would have been better if the donor died a totally natural death determined by God alone (ie - no form of tragic accident, no disease, no court ordered dehydration and starvation, etc.). Of course, the benefit of hypothetically saving another person's life is in NO way a justification for the hypothetical drunk driver to get behind the wheel.

Likewise, it is always wonderful if a person is conceived and ultimately ends up being born. (There are certainly cases where God decides to allow a child to be conceived yet He does not choose for that baby to be born, despite the best care possible by the mother.) It would obviously be best if the mother and father of the child conceived are validly married prior to conception. But if the conception is a result of an evil act, the conception does not justify the evil act. The fact that an evil act occurred does not justify killing the innocent human being conceived. Every human being conceived has a purpose from God. God knows the time He will choose to allow the baby to be conceived and He knows when HE plans for the soul to face judgment and have his or her eternity revealed. Since human beings have free will to commit good and moral acts or evil and immoral acts, we unfortunately have the capability to interfere with God's plans. If a person's life is ended before that individual has served the purpose planned by God (whether it's via abortion, an accident, disease, euthanasia, assisted suicide, etc.), there will never be any other person who will fulfill the same purpose in the exact same way.

Some people say "But why should the woman raped be punished by carrying the child resulting from a rape?" The victim of the rape has already been punished by being raped. Nothing will ever take that away. Giving the ultimate punishment (in this life) to another innocent human being certainly will not take it away. The baby is innocent. The baby did not conspire with his or her father to rape his or her mother.

DP

kenzie: Would you conclude from this story that rape is ok--a good thing even-- because without rape this woman would never have been born? I certainly hope not. Yet using your logic, I don't see how the conclusion can be avoided.

kenzie

I am a 15 year old girl and I once watched a movie about abstinence and pregnancy. The main speaker was a woman probably in her thirties and her name was Pam Stenzel. She spoke to people about diseases and pregnancy, and she told people about abortions and adoption as well. She told a story about a 15 year old girl that was raped. The girl didnt know what to do, should she have an abortion and get rid of the baby that was forced upon her, should she keep the baby and try to figure out how to take care of it, or should she give the baby up for adoption so that another couple could have the chance of taking care of a young child? She finally decided upon the latter. The speaker then said that the young woman that was raped was her mother. This speaker, that was helping young women all over the United States learn about pregnancies and abstinence, was a product of a rape. She didnt blame her mother for giving her up for adoption, she was just glad that she was alive. She felt like she was worth something. she was happy that she could tell everyone that abortion was NOT the answer. That babies that are aborted can make something of themselves if given the chance. However, people arent giving them the chance, they simply just want to get rid of the child because they dont want to take care of it. They make up excuses so that they can tell themselves its ok when its NOT! If you are planning on an abortion, please think about adoption instead...there are millions of people out there waiting to adopt children because they are physically not able to. Make someone happy...give your child a chance to live and to make something of themself.

cw

> Seeing as how people who commit sex crimes
> (inlcuding pedophilia) complete an average of
> 13 assaults before they are caught
Thistles, interesting. Then clearly, I agree with you - stricter sentencing is not the only thing needed here. Police need to work harder investigating cases and tracking the criminals. I can think of a time in Pinellas Park, FL, where an innocent woman named Terri Schiavo was being starved and dehydrated by court order. Because the judge ordered that NOTHING be placed in this innocent woman's mouth, and because George Felos had an alleged concern for "privacy" (despite routinely discussing Terri's medical condition with the press), barring all cameras and tape recorders from the room, there were taxpayer-funded police officers in Terri's hospice room to watch Terri's relatives. I wonder how many crimes and perhaps rapes may have gone on in that area that the police COULD have attended to? I have no idea if anything happened, but as they say, "While the cat's away, the mice will play..." In my opinion it was a total WASTE of taxpayer resources to have police in the room to watch over Terri's loving family. And of course, Terri's situation is not a unique waste (my opinion) of police resources.

> Even with stricter sentencing, there will
> always be perpetrators in the non-incarcerated
> population.
Indeed. And when society promotes sexual immorality all the time so that various industries can make money, the attractiveness of the evil of rape increases.

> and the right to have a safe, legal abortion.
Abortion is NOT safe for the innocent human being who is being given the ultimate punishment for an evil act by his or her father. Abortion is NEVER legal in God's eyes. As we are all exquisite creations by God (including the innocent and vulnerable human beings slaughtered via abortion), man-made secular laws do not trump God's Holy Laws.

May the peace of our Lord and Savior, Jesus Christ, be with you and everyone here, through the intercession of His and our Blessed Mother, the Immaculate, and Ever-Virgin Mary. Our Lady of Guadeloupe, pray for us. Our Lady of Fatima, pray for us.

cw

kaete, apologies for being away for so long.

> in case you missed my concern for the REAL victim here.
There are two victims. One was raped, which is a horrible thing. The OTHER victim lost his or her life. Are you concerned about the SECOND victim as well, the one whose life was ended due to a crime his or her father committed?

As I mentioned to katthemad:
"I will admit that my general focus on pro-life issues has not afforded me the time to deal with the issue of rape. However, because you asked, and because rape is frequently used as an alleged justification to end the lives of innocent human beings in the womb, I will start writing to urge tougher sentences. I believe it is important to get to the ROOT of the problem and not kill an innocent human being for a brutal crime his or her father committed."

But to discuss some of your questions...

> what are you doing to make sure that women are safer?
Some women have died from abortions. Baby girls who are aborted ALWAYS die in abortions. Being in the pro-life movement is a way to make sure they are safer.

> what are you doing to preserve women's power and bodily integrity?
An abortion does not preserve bodily integrity. Baby girls are aborted. Being in the pro-life movement focuses on preserving the bodily integrity of innocent baby girls and boys. As to power, I personally do not make an idol out of power, but I will say that when one is aborted, they have no power whatsoever.

> what are you doing to make sure that i am the
> ultimate authority when it comes to what
> happens to my body?
I will assume, of course, the "I" in this question refers to a woman in general. I'll ask you a question, then. What about girls who are aborted? While the Ultimate Authority for everyone is God, where is the concern about what happens to the bodies of innocent baby girls who are aborted? I reject the notion that anyone is the ultimate authority over their body. Their body, mind, soul, and everything belongs to God. However, for those who deny this and favor legalized abortion, how can they square that with the fact that the body of a human being in the womb is destroyed with every abortion committed? Clearly, that innocent human being did not have so-called "ultimate authority" nor did that innocent human being ever have the ability to make ANY "choice."

cw

katthemad, apologies for my long absence. So many places to read about the culture of death and so little time.

> That means that abortion and pro-choice
> activism are the issues focused upon.
And in this case, the justification of ending the life of an innocent and vulnerable human being in the womb was rape. Those favoring legalized abortion often use rape as a justification for ending the life of an innocent human baby in the womb. If there is truly a concern about this, then the effort should be to make it tougher for rapists. An abortion does NOTHING to stop the rape. But with lax laws and/or judges who do not give tougher sentences, rapists will be more willing to take the risk. And those favoring legalized abortion will continue to talk about rape as an alleged justification for ending the life of a human being in the womb. Therefore, I do believe this is all part of the issue.

> Quite naturally then, those here to learn and
> discuss try to stick mostly to the topic at
> hand.
See above.

> But just so you know, I certainly do oppose
> tougher sentancing for all rapists, regardless
> of the age of their victims, and I let my
> elected representatives and everyone elses know
> about it every chance I see.
Typo correction from other post noted. I'm glad that you do that and hope you continue to let your elected representatives know you want tougher sentencing for rapists. Hopefully you will also ask that judges be required to impose harsh sentences.

> So, what are YOU doing about it?
I will admit that my general focus on pro-life issues has not afforded me the time to deal with the issue of rape. However, because you asked, and because rape is frequently used as an alleged justification to end the lives of innocent human beings in the womb, I will start writing to urge tougher sentences. I believe it is important to get to the ROOT of the problem and not kill an innocent human being for a brutal crime his or her father committed.

thistles

Seeing as how people who commit sex crimes (inlcuding pedophilia) complete an average of 13 assaults before they are caught (if they are ever caught at all) I am not sure that increasing the penalties for sex crimes works all that well as a deterrent. Not that I am against tougher legislation for sex crimes. That certainly needs to be part of the solution. But as the sole measure for dealing with sexual assault and sexual abuse? It's not nearly enough.

Even with stricter sentencing, there will always be perpetrators in the non-incarcerated population. We (as a society) owe it to the victims of sexual abuse and sexual assault to provide a wide range of services for them: including counseling and the right to have a safe, legal abortion.

kaete

yes, cw. i am.

in case you missed my concern for the REAL victim here.

i teach women to fight back. i teach women to use their power and their voices and their bodies and their souls to stop rape.

i teach women to stop participating in their own exploitation.

i raised thousands of dollars for RAINN. i've been to take back the night so many times i can't even remember them all.

i have written letter upon letter; i have done more to stop rape than i can ever describe to you.

what about you? what are you doing to stop the exploitation and abuse of women and children? what are you doing to make sure that women are safer? what are you doing to make sure that a thirteen year-old girl and her family never have to make choices they didn't ask for? what are you doing to preserve women's power and bodily integrity?

what are you doing to make sure that i am the ultimate authority when it comes to what happens to my body?

katthemad

YIKES!!!!! proof-reading is my friend (it ought to be my mantra!).

What I had MEANT to say is that I certainly SUPPORT tougher sentencing for rapists, regardless of the age of their victims.

Oooof.

katthemad

CW;

Perhaps you've noticed the title of this blog; "Abortion Clinic Days". Notice that it's not "Rape Hotline Days". That means that abortion and pro-choice activism are the issues focused upon. Quite naturally then, those here to learn and discuss try to stick mostly to the topic at hand.

But just so you know, I certainly do oppose tougher sentancing for all rapists, regardless of the age of their victims, and I let my elected representatives and everyone elses know about it every chance I see.

So, what are YOU doing about it?

cw

katthemad, there is a way to help other thirteen year olds: push for severe legislation that will deter other monsters from doing this. Demand LIFE sentences with ZERO chance of parole. If you are concerned for this thirteen year old or others in her situation, then urge your Congressperson and Senators to push for the strictest possible LIFE sentences with NO parole for convicted pedophiles and sexual predators. Someone suggested that we have no way of knowing who will do it. Correct. But we know it has happened over and over again. We need to demand penalties for sexual offenders that will deter them from doing this.

Having an abortion does not remove the memories or the psychological damage of the actual rape. In fact, it only potentially adds more psychological problems. I see very little concern about STOPPING THIS FROM HAPPENING IN THE FUTURE from those favoring legalized abortion. Instead, there is just a rush to punish the innocent child for the monstrous act of his or her father and use words like "products of conception" to describe a human being.

If you are concerned about this happening to other girls and women, then demand strict sentences for convicted sexual offenders. And, work to heal a culture that promotes so much sexual immorality. Is there any actual concern to STOP THE RAPES FROM HAPPENING? If so, what are YOU doing about it? Are you contacting your elected representatives about it?

achromic

Thank goodness you were there and able to help. Poor girl. You are hero and so is the staff that was willing to stay late and make it happen. I can only hope that she can heal...... it will be so hard.....

kaete

forcing a 13 year-old girl, whose body is not yet fully mature and who is certainly emotionally unprepared for labor and birth, to bear the child of the man who raped her is punishment. it would be punishment for a grown woman, as well. i don't know what else you'd call it. it's barbaric, vicious, and completely without regard for the already born, and very needy, girl/woman.

rape has nothing to do with sex and everything to do with power. it has less to do with a sex-obsessed culture than with a culture that devalues women and children and puts them at the bottom of the social hierarchy.

and forcing a thirteen year-old to have her rapist's child contribues to the problem and perpetuates the rape culture. it further strips the survivor of her power and bodily integrity.

unacceptable.

katthemad

All this hand-wringing over the "unborn baby" is completely ignoring the basic biological fact that the vast majority of thirteen-year-old girls are not physically ready to carry a normal, healthy pregnancy to term.

How about a little compassion for this poor child who finds herself in this abhorent situation? Or is she ineligible, since she's no longer at a fetal stage of development?

e

thanks yet again for sharing your stories. We need to keep hearing these things, as unfathomable as they are. We need to see the human face of abortion and how it is affected by legislation against reproductive rights.

cw

Kaete, that is rather ridiculous. Is it a tragic situation? Yes. Is it necessary to give the death penalty to the baby for what the father did? No. Furthermore, each human life is of infinite value.

This kind of a statement that the girl giving birth to the baby being a "punishment" is similar to the 'logic' of those who felt slowly starving and dehydrating an innocent woman to death was somehow humane. Those who favored such an act described it as "compassion." While there is no right to die, we don't even have any idea what Terri Schiavo actually wanted. Even her allegedly loving husband admitted to that on CNN according to this:

http://transcripts.cnn.com/TRANSCRIPTS/0503/18/lkl.01.html


The crime of rape also has a lot to do with our filthy culture which is so obsessed with sex. When the media pushes sex, when people say that sexual immorality is 'okay,' this type of thing is bound to happen more and more. When there are limited sentences for this crime, it's going to happen. The answer is to clean up the culture, have strong sentences with ZERO chance of parole, and not just slaughter the baby and declare the problem solved. Beyond killing an innocent human bay, that does nothing to stop this crime from repeating itself (simply with different people) over and over again.

cw

Dei, although my impression of use of the term "neighborhood pedophile" was that he had done this before, it's possible this may have been his first criminal act. Still, we do not live in a vacuum. Perhaps with stronger national laws with mandatory sentencing (and no leeway for judges to give lesser sentences) it may have deterred this one from engaging in his crime.

I know of at least one case where a man raped a girl of about this age a few years back. He received SIX MONTHS in jail. Yes, six MONTHS. Six YEARS would not be enough, but this guy received six MONTHS. Examples need to be made to deter people. Since I do not support the death penalty for anyone (convicted criminals OR innocent babies) lifetime sentences in maximum security prisons with ZERO chance of parole are necessary.

Had this baby been allowed to live instead of being given the death penalty for what his or her father did, his or her DNA could have just as easily convicted the father.

kaete

i certainly oppose punishing an innocent 13 year-old girl for the brutal and barbaric acts of her rapist.

Dei

Ahh, but first someone (and very often several people) have to be raped before and those people are going to have to come to terms with the consequences of the crime against them, regardless of what happens to the offender. Until there's a pre-crime unit that can spot people before they do wrong, this little girl (and others like her) is still going to be in this tragic situation.

I don't think of her abortion as a crime, a 'punishment' against an innocent baby. Her pregnancy is a punishment against an innocent child. I do think of it as a tragedy, a sad situation that it would have been much, much better if if it'd never arisen in the first place but such is life that sometimes bad things do happen.

cw

I oppose punishing the innocent baby (yes, the so-called "products of conception" was a human life) for a brutal and barbaric act of his or her father. However, this case is simply yet another example of why there need to be severe punishments (ie - mandatory LIFEtime sentences with ZERO chance of parole) for convicted sexual preditors and pedophiles. I intend to urge my Congressperson to push for such laws. I trust that those who talk about concern for minors being impregnated by pedophiles will contact THEIR Congresspeople and ask for such laws with mandatory sentencing. Afterall, if someone is in a maximum security prison for life, it's quite difficult to impregnate any young people.

Grace

Oh, they know EXACTLY what they are doing with those 24-48 hour delays. Trying to make people so afraid of experiences exactly like this so that they won't even try to have the abortion at all.

Bastards.

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