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Thursday, January 20, 2011

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Julie

Pandora: What? I'm wondering where in the world you got these strange ideas. Like telling the truth = melodrama, or draconian anti-abortion laws = putting guns to women's heads/Kermit Gosnall. Well, I suppose engaging in these fantasies helps you avoid facing reality: making legal abortion almost impossible to get does not equal more babies, it equals forcing women to resort to back alley abortion services.

Pandora

You love melodrama, Julie. An alleged law that makes women go to a CPC does not equal putting guns to women's heads and making them go to visit Kermit. Except, of course, in the minds of melodramatic pro-aborts. Is this the best you can come up with with your vast knowledge of search engines? I don't need to waste my time on searching for that which doesn't exist.

Phoniness is everywhere. Some people even claim abortion mills are women's health facilities. Isn't that silly?

Julie

Nice dodge, Pandora, but it's easy enough to find information on the draconian anti abortion laws eancted just this year. Like the charming one that would force women seeking abortion to get counseling at CPCs (aka phony clinics). Laws like this will force some women to go to back alley butchers to end their unwanted pregnancies.
But, since you already know that, maybe it's OK that you don't know how to use a search engine.

Pandora

Julie dear .... I don't need to research that which I already know.

There is no draconian anti-abortion legislation that put guns to anyone's heads and made them go see Kermit. Why would I waste my time looking for that which doesn't exist?

Now go visit Kermit as you have so much in common.

Julie

Pandora: It's not my job to do your research. You really need someone to lead you to examples of draconian anti choice legislation?

Misseo: you are a spam bot; this is not the site to shill for your handbag website.

Pandora

I don't think so, Julie. Gosnell was one of you, a proud pro-choicer. You have yet to provide any cogent explanation of how any legislation pushed anyone to go to Gosnell. You could start by ceasing to enable abortionists like him, but I'm not holding my breath for you to do so. Pro-aborts never take responsibility when they screw up.

Julie

Pandora: read my previous post. Keep reading it until you comprehend. Draconian anti-choice legislation helps to drive desperate women to butchers like Gosnell. You have only yourselves to blame. Deal with it.

Pandora

Julie,

So you have no actual proof of your ridiculous statements that somehow blame anti-abortion folks for a cesspool such a the one run by pro-abort Kermit Gosnell?

Julie

Geez Pandora, could you possibly be any sillier? Maybe this is how an anti-choice advocate behaves.
The anti-choicers don't need guns when they can just have their tame legislators pass even more flaming hoops for women to jump through. The icing on the cake has to be the South Dakota law which requires women seeking abortions to get "counselling" at one of the fake clinics run by anti-choice groups.

Pandora

We look forward to Julie producing the reports of evil pro-lifers marching women to Gosnell's cesspool with guns pointed at their heads. Ditto the legislators.

Pandora

Do you have any actual proof of your statements? Or is it just you behaving like an abortion advocate?

Julie

"Once again, a cesspool abortion clinic exists, but its not the poooor pro-aborts fault. It's anti-abortion folks fault because they said mean things"

Pandora, that has to be the stupidest thing you've ever said. The anti abortion activists and their tame legislators are at fault for forcing low income women to go this route. When they make it so difficult for women to access safe abortion care at legitimate clinics via draconian laws, the antis deserve every brickbat they get.

finishing

It's very exiting to find this abortionclinicdays.blogs.com site. I don't have much to add to the conversation, but I'm right here with you. Your post said exactly what I have been thinking. Good to see you posting again.

Pandora

Christina,

Let's see if the folks at NAF follow the recommendation from the report.

14. We recommend that the National Abortion Federation reconsider the inclusion
of Atlantic Women’s Medical Services in Delaware in its membership.
We recommend that NAF reassess the membership of Atlantic Women’s Medical
Services, the Delaware abortion clinic where Gosnell worked part-time before losing his
license in that state. We learned that at least six patients were referred from Atlantic to
Gosnell’s clinic in Philadelphia for illegal late-term abortions. These patients paid
Atlantic for late-term procedures performed by Gosnell in his Lancaster Avenue clinic.
We heard evidence that Gosnell would insert laminaria in patients in Delaware and then
have them come to his Philadelphia office for the abortion procedure itself. The director
of Atlantic Women’s Medical Services, Leroy Brinkley, was unconcerned. He did not
properly supervise the doctors he hired as “independent contractors” to assure that they
were complying with the law. Remarkably, despite Gosnell’s long time association with
260
Atlantic, Brinkley only produced three files for patients seen by Gosnell at Brinkley’s
clinic.

Pandora

Christina,

Someone could get killed from the stampede of people trying to distance themselves, to include the ever-caring people at NAF.

From the Grad Jury's report ......

"We understand that NAF’s goal is to assist clinics to comply with its standards,
not to sanction them for deficiencies. Nevertheless, we have to question why an evaluator
from NAF, whose stated mission is to ensure safe, legal, and acceptable abortion care,
and to promote health and justice for women, did not report Gosnell to authorities."

Pandora

"I'm also struck, reading the link above, how the grand jury uses the phrase 'abortion mill.' If I had a nickel for every time that allegation has been thrown at good, reputable clinics by the anti's. (Does that make the large OB & perinatal loss unit at our local hospital a 'baby mill?' or a 'miscarriage mill?') How do you even begin to talk about good abortion care when rhetoric makes it impossible to parse out the good clinics from the bad."

"The social stigma against abortion services coupled with the Hyde Amendment’s refusal to cover abortion procedures for low-income women create an atmosphere wherein activities like those described in Gosnell’s case can exist. As Charlotte Taft describes in her excellent essay, secrecy, shame and desperation breed subpar care. Also, as SisterSong's excellent primer on Reproductive Justice illlustrates, Hyde represents just one arena in which the reproductive rights and dignity of low-income women and women of colors are dismissed."

Once again, a cesspool abortion clinic exists, but its not the poooor pro-aborts fault. It's anti-abortion folks fault because they said mean things. It's the evil gubamint's fault because the gubamint says pay your own bills. It's society's fault because even after 38 years it refuses to put a stamp of approval upon killing of the unborn.

I see the need for the cheese to come out to go with the whine hasn't diminished.

Christina Dunigan

Funny how y'all are whistling past the graveyard on the National Abortion Federation connection. "Oh, they rejected him as a member." There's far more to it than that.

The murder of Baby Boy A, a photo of whose discarded corpse graces the Grand Jury Report, began at a NAF clinic in Delaware that collected Gosnell's fee for him and turned the patient over to his care. He inserted the laminaria there for this illegal third-trimester abortion, which he then finished at his mill in Philly with the delivery and subsequent murder of Baby Boy A.

The Grand Jury Report indicates that at lease five other women likewise went to the NAF clinic in Delaware, only to be handed over to Gosnell for illegal third-trimester abortions, and the subsequent murders of their live-born infants, at Gosnell's mill.

This isn't like the Abu Hayat case, where nobody realized he was a member until years later, once the storm had blown over. Either NAF's clinic failed to inspect Gosnell's clinic before allowing him to take NAF patients there, or they HAD inspected it and decided it was good enough.

And note that even after the NAF inspector rejected Gosnell's application, the Delaware NAF member continued to allow him to treat patients there.

NAF patients were treated by this man, in his filthy "house of horrors". All the distancing attempts can't erase that.

ben

"Whole-woman abortion care"? That will be the case often enough, but amending the phrase to "whole-couple care" would be another step forward (I suspect you practice whole-couple care; I am just quibbling). I'm not sure when this slips into the realm of counselling--you probably know better than I.

Actually, I suppose that what's really needed is "whole-society abortion care", since even the abortion of a complete stranger's foetus causes so many Americans such deep distress. I wonder what such care would look like.

valleygirl

Oh "yeah", it's wonderful to imagine that someone might be forced to bear a possibly traumatic pregnancy out of your "love" for them. How lucky that women have someone to "hold them accountable", aka force them to bear and deliver every pregnancy they encounter in their reproductive lives. Truly, I am convinced that the people that work against tremendous pressure to provide women with the gamut of reproductive services don't really care about women, just the dollar dollar bills. Oh please, indeed.

JL

Christina Dunigan,

What you've said is a bold-faced lie. http://www.philly.com/philly/news/20110123_Doctor_s_long_tumble_to_jail.html "His failed effort to bluff his way through the application appalled prosecutors." Chew on THAT, my (lying) dear.

yeah

I'll tell you what kind of care MY loved ones deserve. My daughter, niece, best friend, etc., deserve adequate and affordable pre natal care, help with child care expenses, food, clothing, housing, if they need it, and to be educated, counseled, held accountable (if need be). My grandchildren, great nieces, great nephews, best friend's kids, deserve the chance to LIVE - yeah....they are my "loved ones", too.

And please. When will you quit trying to convince women that abortionists care about them? It's all about the money, and this monster offers more proof.

Christina Dunigan

This guy worked two days a week at a National Abortion Federation member clinic that allowed him to start illegal third trimester abortions there (they even collected his fee for him) and finish them in his filthy Philly facility.

Even after a NAF inspector saw the place, he was allowed to continue his association with the NAF member facility -- an association that continued until he lost his Delaware license after the raid.

Chew on that for a while.

placenta sandwich

Thank you for writing this. You're absolutely right: "safe and legal" constitutes a low bar (one I once would've said was already achieved, though that belief is eroded a bit each time I hear about new restrictive bills proposed every month, or a doctor like Gosnell flying under the radar in Pennsylvania while Robin Rothrock's clinic in Louisiana was shut down overnight without basis). We need to focus not just on those two but on quality! That is, the kind of care that most people already KNOW they deserve to receive when they are seeking pretty much anything other than abortion.

Susan

Nell,
Where do you refer woman who come to you for an abortion if they are too far along in their pregnancy?

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